Gifted JPB - questions

[cishepard]

I was just gifted a magnificent old black pine. It came from a friend who has been engaged with bonsai for 40+ years and has a few hundred trees, but he’s getting older and is gradually dispersing his collection. He has given me over 20 trees to date and this one is the latest and greatest (well, the biggest, at any rate).
My friend never liked to wire his trees and relied on clip and grow for the most part. Many of his pines look similar to this one (to my eye), but he thought this one was particularly scraggy and unnattractive. But oh, the trunk!

I‘m excited about this tree’s potential, but I am pretty new to JBP, and don’t have them quite figured out yet. I also have a 3 ten year old prebonsai JBP’s from @River's Edge and a 25 year old, unstyled JBP raised by Anton Nijhous that I don’t know what to do with yet, so any info I can glean from this thread will help with those as well.

Here are my questions:

-The foliage on the tree appears either weak or overly/ improperly pruned to me, correct?
- It has long branches, each with a tuft of needles on the end, little ramification and doesn’t appear to have ever backbudded on any branch. Shall I assume it never will at this point?
- Will I have to wire the existing branches to appear as close to the trunk as possible and then try to ramify from the existing tips onward?
- The tree is very tall but there is a lot of old scarring and interest in the upper trunk (right after the big curve). I’m inclined to leave all of that and only do a bit of reduction on that younger barked upper area to form a nice apex … opinions?
- Down at the base - there is some moss, but mostly lichens - should I carefully remove all of that?
- What would be a good general timeline for work on this tree (ie, fertilize & strengthen, leave all the candles next year or ?, wire now or wait?, repot this year or not, stuff like that)? The tree has been in this pot for many years with no work done on it.

Any other advice is welcome! Thanks in advance: )

Front and back photos:



Some close ups:

 

[penumbra]

Absolutely a ton of potential. The growth does look a bit weak but I will defer to a pine person who will certainly join in soon.

 

[bwaynef]

Before I did anything (besides put it in full sun), I'd half bareroot it this spring.

 

[StPaddy]

I’m unsure but think you want to get that moss off the trunk…nice plant. I need friends like that

 

[misfit11]

As others have stated, yes, carefully remove the lichen and moss from the trunk. JBP are prized for their bark and the moss etc is not good for it and will keep it wet. Also, as Bwaynef says, do a half bare root in the spring. There's lots of information on here about HBR on here for JBP. This tree looks like it's been neglected for some time and the soil it's in is a big factor in bonsai care and especially for conifers. They need well drained soil to thrive.

The first order of business for this tree is getting it healthy. I wouldn't be too concerned about pruning, styling, candling, wiring etc for at least a year. The growth is leggy and spindly as it is and will most likely get cut back at some point anyway. Grafting will probably be necessary to get growth back in towards the trunk (but not until it's healthy).

Keep us posted on it's development. It is a nice tapering trunk with great movement but it needs some TLC before you take it forward.

Cory

 

[misfit11]

This does concern me somewhat. While there are Pines that create corky bark, I don't think that's what this is here. Trees often create callous around diseased or infected tissue (like cancerous growth, mistletoe etc). Maybe some of the resident pine experts on here like @Brian Van Fleet or @Adair M can chime in on this.

 

[Mike Westervelt]

Agree with Bwaynef, half bare root into good free draining soil this early spring, I'd probably go a little bigger on the container.
Looks very weak and you need it to get strong and cranking new growth, most of the live branches are pretty young and will likely back bud if growing strongly and cut back at the right time.
Otherwise grafting closer to the trunk on the branches may be in your future.
I like the lichens, the moss is not our friend, a little vinegar on a paintbrush will kill it then pick off with tweezers, very tedious.

Looks like you are pretty close to Frank Corrigan at Rivers Edge Bonsai, he should be a great resource for pine cultivation and all bonsai in general.

 

[cishepard]

View attachment 468502

This does concern me somewhat. While there are Pines that create corky bark, I don't think that's what this is here. Trees often create callous around diseased or infected tissue (like cancerous growth, mistletoe etc). Maybe some of the resident pine experts on here like @Brian Van Fleet or @Adair M can chime in on this.

I’ll get a better photo of it tomorrow. Thanks for pointing this out, I thought it was just a natural shari.

 

[cishepard]

Agree with Bwaynef, half bare root into good free draining soil this early spring, I'd probably go a little bigger on the container.
Looks very weak and you need it to get strong and cranking new growth, most of the live branches are pretty young and will likely back bud if growing strongly and cut back at the right time.
Otherwise grafting closer to the trunk on the branches may be in your future.
I like the lichens, the moss is not our friend, a little vinegar on a paintbrush will kill it then pick off with tweezers, very tedious.

Looks like you are pretty close to Frank Corrigan at Rivers Edge Bonsai, he should be a great resource for pine cultivation and all bonsai in general.

I can do the hbr and I have a larger pot as well. I am close to Frank, and have taken several workshops from him. In fact, he is giving a talk on wiring tomorrow at my local bonsai club meeting. He has been very busy with moving recently, though. What I really need is a couple hours of private lesson with him and just bring all my JBP’s (and then another one on grafting, lol!)!

 

[cishepard]

Looks very weak and you need it to get strong and cranking new growth, most of the live branches are pretty young and will likely back bud if growing strongly and cut back at the right time.

Oh, I thought that it would only back bud in places where there are still needles.

 

[misfit11]

I’ll get a better photo of it tomorrow. Thanks for pointing this out, I thought it was just a natural shari.

It might be. The fact that it's bulged out made me kind of think otherwise. Also, this most likely wasn't a collected tree so natural shari is unlikely. People don't typically add jins and shari to JBP because it's prone to rot.

 

[River's Edge]

I can do the hbr and I have a larger pot as well. I am close to Frank, and have taken several workshops from him. In fact, he is giving a talk on wiring tomorrow at my local bonsai club meeting. He has been very busy with moving recently, though. What I really need is a couple hours of private lesson with him and just bring all my JBP’s (and then another one on grafting, lol!)!

Bring the tree to the meeting tomorrow. Happy to check it out.

 

[cishepard]

Bring the tree to the meeting tomorrow. Happy to check it out.

Thank you!

 

[bwaynef]

I defer to River's Edge, but I wouldn't look to get this one into a bigger pot. Its already weak and won't have the rootmass necessary to dry out a larger pot. The one its in is plenty big to restore its health, once its got good soil. For that matter, once you take the soil up to 1/4" below the lip of the pot, the tree *will* have a larger soil mass.

 

[cishepard]

I went to the meeting today (Arrowsmith Bonsai Club) and brought the pine. Frank Corrigan had a look at it, as well as a couple other experienced guys. Frank thinks it is probably a Shore pine, rather than a JBP, but we will know for sure when we see the developing new candles.
There is no concern over the scarring here and there on the tree - they might be natural or from a past disease issue, but Frank didn’t see any sign of current problems.
The consensus was that I should repot the tree in March to look for root issues which are the probable cause of the overall weak looking foliage, clean out old soil from areas with rotting or weak roots and fill with pure pumice, leaving healthy looking areas intact and put it into a suitable grow box to recover.
Frank also thought I should wire the tree now, to spread out the branches for good light penetration.

I was very happy and grateful to get all this advice from experts with the actual tree right there.
Frank gave a great talk on wiring as well, and I definitely learned a few things!

 

[misfit11]

I went to the meeting today (Arrowsmith Bonsai Club) and brought the pine. Frank Corrigan had a look at it, as well as a couple other experienced guys. Frank thinks it is probably a Shore pine, rather than a JBP, but we will know for sure when we see the developing new candles.
There is no concern over the scarring here and there on the tree - they might be natural or from a past disease issue, but Frank didn’t see any sign of current problems.
The consensus was that I should repot the tree in March to look for root issues which are the probable cause of the overall weak looking foliage, clean out old soil from areas with rotting or weak roots and fill with pure pumice, leaving healthy looking areas intact and put it into a suitable grow box to recover.
Frank also thought I should wire the tree now, to spread out the branches for good light penetration.

I was very happy and grateful to get all this advice from experts with the actual tree right there.
Frank gave a great talk on wiring as well, and I definitely learned a few things!

Nice. Way to connect with your local club and experienced members. My bonsai skill set increased 10-fold when I joined REBS and started going to workshops and meetings. There's no substitute for in-person instruction. Your tree will thank you for it with healthy growth and a beautiful styling.

Cory

 

[cishepard]

Nice. Way to connect with your local club and experienced members. My bonsai skill set increased 10-fold when I joined REBS and started going to workshops and meetings. There's no substitute for in-person instruction. Your tree will thank you for it with healthy growth and a beautiful styling.

Cory

Indeed!

 

[Potawatomi13]

What I really need is a couple hours of private lesson with him and just bring all my JBP’s!

Excellently brilliant deduction. Tree has potential. Also curious is actually JBP? Personally will defer best advice to Master Rivers Edge.

 

[cishepard]

I received more info about the tree from the previous owner. It came from a couple of old members of the Vancouver Island Bonsai Society in Victoria, British Columbia, who, years ago, started up a nursery of field grown pines, maples, elms, etc., and this tree was in the field for 8 years when my friend bought it in 1990 (so it is over 40 years old). It was sold as a corkbark Japanese Black Pine. The nursery owners are now deceased and the growing fields long gone, turned into a sub-division.
He also said that he repotted the tree in June of 2020. He uses a large amount of compost in his mix, so I think I will carry on with Frank’s advice of a root inspection and partial cleanout of weak areas, refilling with pure pumice.

 

[River's Edge]

Cork bark Pine care?​

The extra background from the growing history is helpful. I think you will benefit from and enjoy the information posted by Brian Van Fleet in the posted topic on Bonsai Nut that is highlighted above. He presents some thoughts and insights from various situations working with Corkbark Black Pine varieties. It does not change the steps forward for this situation other than perhaps to temper your expectations over quick results.
Understanding the field grown history and soil composition likely used, supports the key step of exploring the central core and adapting the repot process on the basis of what the actual current situation is. If it was repotted in June of 2020, the current growth indicates a major root issue, based on examining the tree closely. If possible find out what was the extent of the repot in 2020, that will be very helpful in understanding the current condition.
If it is a corbark variety that would explain the bark pattern and bud formation similar to the native shore pine. Depending on location the bark and buds can be very similar. Can't wait to see how the buds open and candles appear this spring!