Friendly soil questions, hopefully...

[Bonsaihead]

OK bnuts I have about 20 trees that need repotting. Mostly pre bonsai and tropicals that I bought over the winter and I plan to put them in grow out pots. My question is for the people that use inorganic for more mature trees but prefer organic soil in the earlier stages of the tree. At what point do you make the switch from organic to inorganic and why do you prefer to wait until you get to that stage to make the switch? (pros and cons) As you can see I live in Florida so I'm going to be dealing with a good amount of rain with a lot of heat and sun shining.Not sure if what species makes a difference or not but mostly dealing with tropics, ficus, Brazilian rain trees, premna, Barbados cherry, parrot's beak while I do have a couple conifers, procumbens and Parsoni and deciduous, elms, maples. thanks in advance!

 

[Anthony]

What are you after --------- thicker trunks or refinement of branches ?
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Bonsaihead]

trunk thickness and really just size in general. As most just have straight boring trunks most are gonna get the chop or air layered. I'm assuming you are gonna to say that I shouldn't go to a inorganic mix until im looking for ramification of branches. That's more or less what I figured but wanted to make sure it was that simple. I recently read a post online talking about how letting shoots growing long unchecked isn't always the best scenario to developing trunk size. His argument was that if the more leaves the plant has to provide for equals a bigger trunk then wouldn't you have more leaves and more of a need for a thicker trunk if three branches say a foot long break into three branches all a a foot long then you would just having three branches 2 ft long. So his solution was to let branches go or long and instead of leaving them on checks or cutting them back to just a few leaves cutting along branches just at the tips so then you still get ramification without making the tree compact. I'm not sure if there's something he's missing or what but it seems pretty Legit To Me and was curious to how that would affect the choosing of soil

 

[sparklemotion]

More organic means more nutrients. Both from the natural breakdown of the organic matter (with some caveats about nitrogen capture I think) and from organics having a higher CEC (ability to hold on to provided nutrients from fertilizer).

Organics cause problems in shallow pots because they are more water retentive, and become even more so over time as the particles break down.

For trees in development (taller pots, more frequent repotttings) the downsides are lessened, so the tradeoff is worth it.

 

[Anthony]

For the Tropicals and elms I would suggest ground grow in a colander for
for thicker trunks, with 6 branches. Time 1 to 3 years.

If you can draw, do a design of what you are hoping for and apply it to the tree.

See - General Discussion - A map ------- see if that helps.

For the elm - this is what was done and what was achieved.
1/3 of a 55 US gallon, plastic black barrel, filled with a coarse soil mix.
Elm took 6 months to reach a 3 inch trunk.
You may need to do this in late spring.
Full sun for us.
Good Day
Anthony

Visual proof and now in training -------- Southern Chinese Elm [ Mallsai Mother ]
It was a root at first.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

I use my old bonsai soil, mixed with some extra pine back. Works great on everything that I have tried.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

For the Tropicals and elms I would suggest ground grow in a colander for
for thicker trunks, with 6 branches. Time 1 to 3 years.

If you can draw, do a design of what you are hoping for and apply it to the tree.

See - General Discussion - A map ------- see if that helps.

For the elm - this is what was done and what was achieved.
1/3 of a 55 US gallon, plastic black barrel, filled with a coarse soil mix.
Elm took 6 months to reach a 3 inch trunk.
You may need to do this in late spring.
Full sun for us.
Good Day
Anthony

Visual proof and now in training -------- Southern Chinese Elm [ Mallsai Mother ]
It was a root at first.

View attachment 182361

Anthony, are talking diameter or circumference when referring to the trunk?

 

[Bonsaihead]

thanks for the feedback and knowledge guys! @Mellow Mullet I took a glace at your page and I'm excited to check it out when I have some time. @Anthony I will also have to take some time to look through that post as well. I have the basic idea but sure I could learn a lot more with some devoted time. I'm a horrible drawer lol but still plan on giving sketching my trees a try. I'm aware it's a really good practice and I think it would even help me get some creative juices flowing and who knows maybe my terrible drawing skills will give me a good idea by accident haha. I do plan on plan on making a couple of post on regards to developing a direction and coming up with path for most of them. I just wanted to make sure I have a basic understanding of what I'm doing with the soil first

 

[Bonsaihead]

and as far as containers I'll be using, will be 12"bulb pots for smaller trees and these which are 18,10,5 just because that's what I already have

 

[Anthony]

@Mellow Mullet ,

that would have been diameter.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Bonsaihead]

so @Anthony let me ask you, you think those planters will work similar because of the mesh bottom? And you are saying that you still use coarse inorganic mix even when you are trying to grow out trunk size?

 

[Anthony]

@Bonsaihead ,

I was reliably informed by folk on your side that just resting a container
with mesh on the ground will allow for root escape and the same effect
for ground growing'/ trunk thickening.

We use the same soil in the Bonsai pots as in the colander.
5 mm inorganic plus aged compost - between 7 to 9 parts inorganic and 3 to 1 part
organic.
Is 5 mm coarse ?
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Bonsaihead]

awesome glad to hear I didn't waste my money on those Planters LOL. So @Anthony what is important is that the Planters are on the ground? It is crazy to me how much time I've spent researching and had no idea that putting the planter on the ground was that important. I understand the concept that it will allow the roots to grow freely into the ground and not be restricted by the planter. Just had no idea