First trip to Japan. Bonsai locations advice.

[Mihai]

Hey nuts! Happy egg laying rabbit day to be politically correct .
The missus and I are going on our first trip to Japan at the end of March, and as you can imagine, I'd like to make the most of the trip and see as many little twisted trees in pots as humanly possible .
I've seen that a lot of you guys visited a lot so I was hoping you might have some tips and trips to share. Our trip will be Tokyo, Hakone, Kyoto, Nagoya, Takayama as our main destinations and several smaller towns around these as day trips. So far I've added Shunka-en museum, Omiya village and museum in/near Tokyo andKoju-en in Kyoto to the list. Anything else you would add? Also... any super duper must see place not on the tourist beaten path that's worth checking out?
Also, concerning the Omiya village... how does it work? You just wonder into peoples' nurseries? No appointment? No asking permission? No nothing?
Third and last question: have any Euro nuts picked up any trees and had them shipped home while in Japan? Ho does that work?
I'm suoer excited about this trip and also kinda scared of the language barier.
Thanks a million!

 

[sorce]

First...

Kit Kats....

@Stillwater @William N. Valavanis @MACH5 @Owen Reich

Search... Trip to Japan!

Awesome Bro!

Safe travels and Buy lots of pots!

Sorce

 

[Mihai]

First...

Kit Kats....

@Stillwater @William N. Valavanis @MACH5 @Owen Reich

Search... Trip to Japan!

Awesome Bro!

Safe travels and Buy lots of pots!

Sorce

Oh for the love of god )). I swear you're the living breathing Thesarus to this place! If @Bonsai Nut doesn't pay you yet... he should . Screw the search bar... just type @ sorce.
Thanks man. If ur ever in eastern europe i'll set you up with more beer than you can drink.
I'd still love it if someone could pitch in on the importing bit.

 

[sorce]

Oh for the love of god )). I swear you're the living breathing Thesarus to this place! If @Bonsai Nut doesn't pay you yet... he should . Screw the search bar... just type @ sorce.
Thanks man. If ur ever in eastern europe i'll set you up with more beer than you can drink.
I'd still love it if someone could pitch in on the importing bit.

Love!

Only people from Your country can help you with importing.
Your regulations will be specific, Leo and I were talking about it the other night...

But I believe @Stillwater is importing.

Just remember the Japanese won't have an obligation to know your import codes...
So you must research that for yourself.

Safest, most profitable, least risky....

Pots...

And kitkats apparently.

Sorce

 

[Mihai]

Well... if i actually have to talk to the department of agriculture in Romania I'm screwed ). Talking to public institutions here is like hammering nails is your scrotum to scratch an itch... completely impractical, useless and sometimes painfull. From what I gather, the general legal framework is identical for all European union states, so if anyone from EU on here does it, should apply to me too.
Hell... just passed the 230lbs mark... keep me away from the kitkats or i'll have to be shipped back by sea... in a large container... filled to the brim with pots... and sushi... damn!

 

[Clicio]

I have been some times to Japan.
Last year (November) I bought some very nice pots in Omiya and went over to Seiki in Gifu to visit Kaneshin, and of course bought lots of tools, cut paste and even a watering hose. But...
Unfortunately no plants allowed to be taken to Brazil. Akadama, Kanuma or any soil were a no-no also...
But I purchased BioGold

 

[Stillwater]

We've imported from Japan to a few different countries. Mainly the USA as that is where we are based, but we have imported into places in the European Union before as well.

The process is different for each tree. Some trees are certified quarantined in Japan, meaning they have been in a quarantine greenhouse or equivalent structure in Japan for at least 2 years and need not have any additional special requirements in most countries beyond the declaration of import and a small customs fee. Fujikawa Kouka-en Nursery in Osaka has a good selection of already quarantined trees. Aichien in Aichi also has a selection of already quarantined trees from time to time but it's hit and miss with them.

If you cannot find pre-quarentined trees the process is a ton more involved and typically not worth it for the average consumer. In the USA & Europe both the tree has to spend 2 years in quarantine. This requires a quarantine greenhouse, they are about the most expensive structure you can ever build averaging $150-$300 per square foot. They are hermetically sealed as tight as a level 4 pathogen storage facility. In the USA, Pressure tested twice a year and inspected by the USDA, and literally sealed so tight that an insect half the size of a spider mite cannot escape. There are few of the places built both in the USA where we are and in Europe. Some places charge fortunes for the service, some upwards of $200usd per square foot per month, although if you find a specialty nursery like we are that focuses solely on bonsai we only charge around $25-$50 per square foot per month. Plus all customs and USDA fees. Even with that, if we are importing a tree for a client it usually has a price tag higher than $10k USD as the quarantine cost is not worth it for a lesser tree. Not to mention that a tree must be bare root to pass through customs.

I know that the process in the EU is similar to having your buddy hit you in the face with a baseball bat to swat a mosquito. It can be done, but typically not worth it.

My advice, find a pre-quarantined tree if you absolutely must have a tree from Japan, But understand that in most cases unless you are spending $10k plus most trees from Japan are nothing special. There are growers all over the EU and the USA that grow the same material for better prices and more often than not you get better trees. For example in Japan nearly every JWP or JRP you find is grafted on JBP root stock, typically within 50 years the grafts separate on all but the rarest occasion. Here in the USA there are several places to get high quality JRP or JWP on their own roots with the same caliper and size for less money when you figure in the cost of importing. Same goes for a lot of species.

If you want to bring stuff home from Japan, @sorce is right. Stock up on gourmet KitKats they are the best treat in Japan and all your buddies at home will think you are a god if you share some. KitKats, Suiseki, and Pots, that's what you want to import home from Japan.

 

[sorce]

We've imported from Japan to a few different countries. Mainly the USA as that is where we are based, but we have imported into places in the European Union before as well.

The process is different for each tree. Some trees are certified quarantined in Japan, meaning they have been in a quarantine greenhouse or equivalent structure in Japan for at least 2 years and need not have any additional special requirements in most countries beyond the declaration of import and a small customs fee. Fujikawa Kouka-en Nursery in Osaka has a good selection of already quarantined trees. Aichien in Aichi also has a selection of already quarantined trees from time to time but it's hit and miss with them.

If you cannot find pre-quarentined trees the process is a ton more involved and typically not worth it for the average consumer. In the USA & Europe both the tree has to spend 2 years in quarantine. This requires a quarantine greenhouse, they are about the most expensive structure you can ever build averaging $150-$300 per square foot. They are hermetically sealed as tight as a level 4 pathogen storage facility. In the USA, Pressure tested twice a year and inspected by the USDA, and literally sealed so tight that an insect half the size of a spider mite cannot escape. There are few of the places built both in the USA where we are and in Europe. Some places charge fortunes for the service, some upwards of $200usd per square foot per month, although if you find a specialty nursery like we are that focuses solely on bonsai we only charge around $25-$50 per square foot per month. Plus all customs and USDA fees. Even with that, if we are importing a tree for a client it usually has a price tag higher than $10k USD as the quarantine cost is not worth it for a lesser tree. Not to mention that a tree must be bare root to pass through customs.

I know that the process in the EU is similar to having your buddy hit you in the face with a baseball bat to swat a mosquito. It can be done, but typically not worth it.

My advice, find a pre-quarantined tree if you absolutely must have a tree from Japan, But understand that in most cases unless you are spending $10k plus most trees from Japan are nothing special. There are growers all over the EU and the USA that grow the same material for better prices and more often than not you get better trees. For example in Japan nearly every JWP or JRP you find is grafted on JBP root stock, typically within 50 years the grafts separate on all but the rarest occasion. Here in the USA there are several places to get high quality JRP or JWP on their own roots with the same caliper and size for less money when you figure in the cost of importing. Same goes for a lot of species.

If you want to bring stuff home from Japan, @sorce is right. Stock up on gourmet KitKats they are the best treat in Japan and all your buddies at home will think you are a god if you share some. KitKats, Suiseki, and Pots, that's what you want to import home from Japan.

Thank You Brother!

Now we understand that $65 is going towards more than Shovel Class huh!?

Me and My old Boss AKA "king of the impossible" used to make fun of people
Who thought they could do what we do because.....

"They took the Home Depot Class" lol!

Maybe that dude is just plagued by Home Depot Classes!

Student.
"Teacher, what is that over there?"

Teacher.
"Shut up and Dig, State a Maine need this here ditch dug by sundown" lol movie reference.

Student.
"Yes Master, but it loo..TEACHER.."SHUT UP AND DIG"

In wanders cute cuddly little Baby Black bear....

Do we...A. Hug it?
B. Run like Hell?

I'm being a Douchebag and weeding out the Thoughtless!

You are So welcome here!

Sorce

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Rikugien, its beautiful garden park that might be pretty. Watch the morning news shows. They'll mention the top places to sight see that day.

Sorry, I didn't mention bonsai places.

 

[KeithE]

The end of March, as in you are there now? or next March? Definitely check out Yorozuen.

There are growers all over the EU and the USA that grow the same material for better prices and more often than not you get better trees....most trees from Japan are nothing special

wow lol. Please share these US growers.

 

[Stillwater]

The end of March, as in you are there now? or next March? Definitely check out Yorozuen.


wow lol. Please share these US growers.

Do you have a particular type of tree you are looking for? I can help you with finding the places to get them in the US. USA growers tend to be more niche specific. I.E. there are a lot of growers in California that grow JBP, JWP, JRP and Satsuki's only pretty much. Oregon a few growers that focus specifically on Junipers, and Cypress, Florida growers that focus more tropical things, ect. It would take me a while to put together an all inclusive list so if you had something specific in mind i could probably get you in touch with the place to get it.

 

[KeithE]

I didn't realize there was an underground network of off the grid growers. How about black pine? (or anyone producing shohin)

 

[Stillwater]

I didn't realize there was an underground network of off the grid growers. How about black pine? (or anyone producing shohin)

It's not underground by any means, anyone with the ability to use google can find them. The difficulty with them is that most of them are owned by Japanese Americans, and seem to have an aversion to websites, lack of interest in marketing, or base their business off a small but loyal client base. Most times you have to type in ________(insert state)_____Bonsai Nursery____ into google so you find them with google places. Luckily JBP are common among many growers, Fuji Bonsai Nursery in Sylmar CA has quite a good selection of JBP field grown specimens, Muranaka Bonsai in Nipomo CA. last time I was through still had a great selection of US field grown stock as well, but it's been a few years since I was out there. It takes a little time when you get started, but if you buy trees a lot you will quickly learn there is a huge selection of USA stock that is out there, it's just not marketed much and most of the business owners dont partake in forums such as this or facebook

 

[KeithE]

Luckily for those of us without the ability to use google, we have an open and sharing community here at BNut... JK, my inquiries are typically ignored. I wasn't aware that Nagatoshi will ship trees, I will def contact him to see what he has. Thanks. I guess we have differing opinions of Japanese quality trees. I own a Muranaka pine and I've never seen him selling anything close to Japanese quality. As you mentioned, the local folks likely scavenge the cream of the crop. TelFarm has great raw stuff, but nothing small.

 

[Stillwater]

Luckily for those of us without the ability to use google, we have an open and sharing community here at BNut... JK, my inquiries are typically ignored. I wasn't aware that Nagatoshi will ship trees, I will def contact him to see what he has. Thanks. I guess we have differing opinions of Japanese quality trees. I own a Muranaka pine and I've never seen him selling anything close to Japanese quality. As you mentioned, the local folks likely scavenge the cream of the crop. TelFarm has great raw stuff, but nothing small.

There is a select group that hovers over the typical suppliers of the quality stuff as you implied. Typically there is a list of clients at most places that get phone calls or e-mails as soon as something high quality is ready to be sold. I'm not sure about shipping and such, I learned early on that to get your hands on the best of the best you need to go on buying trips. Go to the physical locations and lay eyes on everything, when we started out i tried doing it all over the phone but learned really quick that the owners have no interest in doing business that way. Even some of the not "Japanese Quality" material is just material that needs a few years of refinement to become of Japanese quality.

 

[Mihai]

@Clicio: thanks for the tips! Actually some good fertilizer sounds like just what the doctor ordered. For the moment I have more tools that trees though .
@Stillwater thanks for taking the time for such a detailed reply. I knew about the quarantine for the US but didn't know the it was also enforced for EU. Kouka-en is definitely on the visiting list even if I have to sell my soul to my wife to get her there ). The issue with trees in my neck of the woods is that there are none ). If I want to see something in person it's a hell of a drive to the Czech republic or Poland that have the closest nurseries. I'm not likely to have time to visit this year, so I thought that if I go to Japan and I'll see the nursery material up front it might be worth it to get a tree or two... since the only other option for the near future is ordering online. Not that ordering isn't OK, but I don't know... the fact that I can potentially see something before buying sound so much better.
The pots are a no brainier. Going to be sending a rather large box of theb back I think .
@thumblessprimate1 Rigukien has been added to the list . Looks amazing from photos.
@KeithE ))). Sorry... Apparently I had a brain fart. I meant May, not March. 23rd of May - 9th of June.
@Stillwater back to you. (sorry but I made a bad habit or replying to posts in order). JBP and JRP are the main attraction, as middle range (from the price perspective) ones seem kind of scarce in Europe, and the ones you find are either sticks in pots or Show ready trees over 3-4K Euros.
@KeithE play nice . The man is just trying to help.

 

[River's Edge]

Hey nuts! Happy egg laying rabbit day to be politically correct .
The missus and I are going on our first trip to Japan at the end of March, and as you can imagine, I'd like to make the most of the trip and see as many little twisted trees in pots as humanly possible .
I've seen that a lot of you guys visited a lot so I was hoping you might have some tips and trips to share. Our trip will be Tokyo, Hakone, Kyoto, Nagoya, Takayama as our main destinations and several smaller towns around these as day trips. So far I've added Shunka-en museum, Omiya village and museum in/near Tokyo andKoju-en in Kyoto to the list. Anything else you would add? Also... any super duper must see place not on the tourist beaten path that's worth checking out?
Also, concerning the Omiya village... how does it work? You just wonder into peoples' nurseries? No appointment? No asking permission? No nothing?
Third and last question: have any Euro nuts picked up any trees and had them shipped home while in Japan? Ho does that work?
I'm suoer excited about this trip and also kinda scared of the language barier.
Thanks a million!

Nara and the Imperial gardens is a worthwhile stop! If you have English skills then the language barrier will not be a problem. The difficulty will be understanding the signage, however we found the japanese people to be very helpful and courteous to tourists. If using the trains just ensure it is the right line and platform. In some of the busier stations it is easy to get on the wrong track level.
have a great trip.

 

[M. Frary]

They just put up a new statue of Godzilla in Tokyo.

 

[Mihai]

Well now I can die a happy man. Omya was amazing. Visited the museum and the nurseries. Picked up some super small pots. In any case the highlight of the day was a trip to Master Kimura's house. He was nice emough to ask one of his aprentices to give us a tour. The place was beyond my wildest dreams. I'm posting some pics for you guys.

 

[Clicio]

Wow, thanks for the pictures! Amazing!