First Ceramic pot for my 1st Mugho

[Japonicus]

One of the poorest documented trees in my collection.
I'm not finding pics of it in my misc. bonsai pics at all

Water has slowed enough to the point that repotting was in order.

Here it sat today in the 12 inch mica pot it's been in for who knows how long.
I'm sure it was repotted into the same pot last time. So while it was thirsty after work
I withheld water and dug into the roots.





A good 4 fingers. Mica pot 4" deep exterior. 3.5-3.7" interior (it's lower in the middle).










Later I was able to get another pic.

It's pretty much the ceramic version of the mica pot in design so no big change there
but the ceramic pot is ~2 inches shorter, and 1/2 inch more shallow, so a step in the right direction.

1 part Lava Rock
1 part Pumice
1 part Douglas fir bark
1 part Pine Bark
2 parts Monto Clay (1/4" turface)

Hoping to get 4 years out of the roots this go 'round. Would have liked to have had a little more Moon in the sky though.
@sorce phase at third quarter tomorrow. Once snugged down and adding new soil, I really worked the outer 3" of remainder of root
system with chop stick aerating home plate pretty good.

 

[Hartinez]

One of the poorest documented trees in my collection.
I'm not finding pics of it in my misc. bonsai pics at all

Water has slowed enough to the point that repotting was in order.
View attachment 322214
Here it sat today in the 12 inch mica pot it's been in for who knows how long.
I'm sure it was repotted into the same pot last time. So while it was thirsty after work
I withheld water and dug into the roots.
View attachment 322215

View attachment 322216

View attachment 322217
A good 4 fingers. Mica pot 4" deep exterior. 3.5-3.7" interior (it's lower in the middle).
View attachment 322219

View attachment 322220

View attachment 322222


View attachment 322221

View attachment 322223
Later I was able to get another pic.

It's pretty much the ceramic version of the mica pot in design so no big change there
but the ceramic pot is ~2 inches shorter, and 1/2 inch more shallow, so a step in the right direction.

1 part Lava Rock
1 part Pumice
1 part Douglas fir bark
1 part Pine Bark
2 parts Monto Clay (1/4" turface)

Hoping to get 4 years out of the roots this go 'round. Would have liked to have had a little more Moon in the sky though.
@sorce phase at third quarter tomorrow. Once snugged down and adding new soil, I really worked the outer 3" of remainder of root
system with chop stick aerating home plate pretty good.

Great tree. Since you don’t have pics, how bout some back story? Year acquired? Nursery stock? Issues along the way? I’m guessing at least 7/8 years of growth on this one?

 

[sorce]

That looks like an unstoppable root mass.
Feels good!

I am very stuck on how the picture with your hand, from the bottom, and others from the top, show so much interest in the branches, but a "standard" viewing angle becomes "dull" green helmetish.

Makes me curious about the height it's kept at and wether that is influencing what looks nice.

I think you can coax more up and down visible movement in the branches from the "standard" viewing angle.

The first right branch seems ready to be three separate pads, 2 down one up. 2 pads directly above that. 2 or 3 on the first left branch. And keeping everything above that 2 or 1 pad.

Then when the first branch becomes 4, everything jumps up to follow.

If the tree is a book, the pads are the paragraphs, and the branches are sentences.
Though we may not see ALL the branching, the pads, paragraphs, that we can see are representative of the ramification that we should have. Most on the bottom, lessening on up. So the single pad on the bottom is .,..killing the mission?

I envy your Hort skills. Few people have shown the diligence you have when it comes to keeping things well for long periods of time, long enough to transform them.

I feel like somewhere along that way, in the "waiting", you may have forgotten, or not even noticed how dope your Hort skills are, and therefore may not be squeezing the best juice out of your little beauties.

I feel like your Hort skills have provided you with 100 points to twist your trees into wicked bitcheness, but something is only letting you use 25.

Maybe it's the whole, building walls in the house thing and always being out with the Mrs., But that needs to stop!

Seriously though, Take em there!

Woot!

Sorce

 

[Potawatomi13]

Personally could see bigger tree(needles to better scale)more branching creativity, main branches pulled down, top thinned out. Good start and hope survives repot.

 

[Japonicus]

Great tree. Since you don’t have pics, how bout some back story? Year acquired? Nursery stock? Issues along the way? I’m guessing at least 7/8 years of growth on this one?

Thank you Hartinez! It was a 1 gallon nursery stock, from Lowes. I'm glad I whisked it up when I saw it. We don't get many good mugos around here
I do have pics on a couple of memory cards, just none that I've dropped into my usual misc. bonsai folder with subfolders by year/tree etc...
On this card in the pc right now the earliest I have is July 5th 2015.

7/5/15
The bottom left branch that was jinned is still on at this point.
April 19, 2018
Looks like some Fall work was accomplished 2017 and the needle cast digging in. Lost my 1st JBP that year to needle cast.
So here @sorce can have at it with flaws exposed. Stay tuned, more to come...


May 5th, 2018







May 22, 23, 2018 ^

July 1st, 2018 the rotations of Phyton 27 and Daconil have helped immensely with the needle cast.
@sorce this mugho has recovered enough this year, for me to feel confident with repotting it.
Next year I will revisit this little guy and work on the foliage thinning it again, then some wire again later in Autumn.
As of this year I've been trying to regain vigour rather than subtract vigour.

So while this tree is poorly documented, and 3 years unaccounted for on this one memory card, the mica pot is evident for the last 5 years.

 

[Japonicus]

Makes me curious about the height it's kept at and wether that is influencing what looks nice.

I think you can coax more up and down visible movement in the branches from the "standard" viewing angle.

The first right branch seems ready to be three separate pads, 2 down one up. 2 pads directly above that. 2 or 3 on the first left branch. And keeping everything above that 2 or 1 pad.

Then when the first branch becomes 4, everything jumps up to follow.

Thanks sorce!
Well the tree has been resting and regaining vigour as mentioned above, so this time next year
I suspect that it will begin taking shape again. The height kept at could otherwise be a really good read on your part.

"Then when the first branch becomes 4, everything jumps up to follow."
Help me understand your intentions here here, if it's a suggestion to follow, or a statement of observation.

Thanks for the props, and I am one to practice what I preach to get a tree bush-ily thriving prior to working on it.
This tree is no exception. Now when it comes to higher levels of manipulation, I will need to travel to get to some classes.
I know my skills are limited to , well you've seen a good number of my projects in what I post, and after a loss here n there
in complete ignorance of causes, keeps me sticking to what works a lot of the time. On younger material I am more apt
to try higher levels of manipulation, and again, I've never been to a show nor class and have purchased only one or 2 bonsai
one of those in a plastic round 4 or 5 inch grow pot, like for seedlings ya know. The JWP in my avatar is probably the only bonsai
I've ever purchased (save for some $15-20 glued in pot, junipers at Lowes years ago, and a couple $20 roadside finds in Florida since deceased)
I only wish my skills were up to par to treat it properly, the JWP that is.

 

[Hartinez]

It’s amazing to see where it was with needle cast to now! Great job regaining vigor. I’ve got 3 mugo, all started last year. One that is forming the same browning needles. So phyton and daconil as a rotation? What every week? Every other? Do you think it’s too late to start a regimen?

I love seeing the way these nursery mugo form through wiring and training. Once that line is established those hard bends really smooth out for a great look. And are there really any good nursery mugo for what we do anywhere in the US?!?! At least good to start. You’ve really got to have a vision with them for sure.

I’m kind of on the other side of the spectrum at the moment. I feel like my eye is getting better and better, along with my wiring and styling. But I’ve really got to dial in my horticultural efforts.

Great little tree @Japonicus

 

[Japonicus]

It’s amazing to see where it was with needle cast to now! Great job regaining vigor. I’ve got 3 mugo, all started last year. One that is forming the same browning needles. So phyton and daconil as a rotation? What every week? Every other? Do you think it’s too late to start a regimen?

I love seeing the way these nursery mugo form through wiring and training. Once that line is established those hard bends really smooth out for a great look. And are there really any good nursery mugo for what we do anywhere in the US?!?! At least good to start. You’ve really got to have a vision with them for sure.

I’m kind of on the other side of the spectrum at the moment. I feel like my eye is getting better and better, along with my wiring and styling. But I’ve really got to dial in my horticultural efforts.

Great little tree @Japonicus

Uh, I'm going to say it's never too late to start treating for needle cast, however you've missed the window for treating
this years needles, so you've maybe lost a year. Needle cast takes a few years to dig deep enough to kill a tree IME
but that's only one loss I just kept seeing good new growth each year, while the tree got weaker and weaker.
When I broke one of the branches on that JBP, it succumbed the next year and it had been building a very nice trunk for my skill level.

So now that you're past the proper window for treating the new growth, what's wrong with systemically treating the entire tree?
I say start now with Bonide infuse which I've added to my rotation this year, and Phyton 27 two ounce size should last quite a while.

Phyton 27

Growers call Phyton 27 their “secret weapon” or “silver bullet” because it performs when other chemicals and controls fail.

store.phytoncorp.com

I don't think Daconil is systemic and don't recommend it now for needle cast, but if it were, then I would.
So I use the the Bonide granules 1Tsp to an 8-12" pot and rake into the soil, and the Phyton gets its' own little 1.5 liter/50 some ounce small
handheld pressurized pump sprayer and nothing else goes in that sprayer, which needs fresh water ran through to clear the nozzle when you're done.
A week between rotations beginning at bud swell, then again as the needles are beginning to open/opening.
There's nothing harmful to trying to systemically treat for it now, especially since it takes, well perhaps a lifetime of treating the tree
proactively, to keep it free of the grips, of the disease. It's airborne.

 

[sorce]

Then when the first branch becomes 4, everything jumps up to follow."

Once that branch has ramified so there can be four pads, the one above it gets three, above that 2 etc.

I think it is not speaking enough with it's single pad look.

What I said about your Hort skills was severe understatement!

You made a dead tree live!

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

I think it is not speaking enough with it's single pad look.

Gotchya! I think with what little bit I can comprehend on pines, I'm missing a step in the ramification dept.
I have allowed to extend and cut back, and candle pinching other years, to keep it in check , I'm just too afraid to cut all the way back
to the smallest shoots. I really think there's branches I need to keep without a good place to cut back to,
in order to tighten up the ramification in closer to the trunk, then there's others that have good places to cut back to
to rebuild the branch in closer, which combined, would put this tree out of balance really bad for a very long time.
(Does that make sense?) So, I, in what little knowledge I have to building a slow mugo tree, have been trying to create
back budding to tighten up the profile more, rather than ramifying so much from the exterior profile.
Maybe that's keeping too much energy out there the way I've been going about it.
Still cant do anything about it this year. Next year I'll tackle the strong and medium zones.
This year I've been on a kick to begin correcting flawed pads, which also slows the pace down.
This one's gonna get some correction as well.

Personally could see bigger tree(needles to better scale)more branching creativity, main branches pulled down, top thinned out. Good start and hope survives repot.

Thanks Potawatomi! Yes I'll thin on it next year, and prune for shape.
The top is no thicker than most branches. The entire left side appears thinner than the right side.
I will be a little more aggressive with the right side rather than just the apex.
If you look at the last picture where I potted it up yesterday, the lower right branch is lower, than before, in appearance.
Maybe it's the angle I shot from, but I think the entire tree needs wiring out. Mugos are so slow.
Thanks for the well wishes on the potting

 

[just.wing.it]

Very nice Mugo!
I love it!

I need to get back on the Mugo train....

 

[Japonicus]

Thanks Mike! I was afraid I was going to lose the premium window of opportunity to repot
so Monday when I got home I dug in and seized the moment. Wanted to get in there a week ago...
I have more paranoia repotting junipers than with pine, but always anxious when I dig in no matter what it is.
Yes get to working on your mugo ticket. Haven't seen yours there in a while.
When I started this thread I realized the Train thread had any and all documentation I had on this one
somewhere in like 175 pages, so here I am, no name tree other than My 1st Mugho, but a dedicated thread for it.

 

[Adair M]

Some diagrams on building branch pads:

 

[Japonicus]

Some diagrams on building branch pads:

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Thanks Adair! I know I've seen those diagrams before, having them in this thread will make quick reference point. Thank you.


I found this one from April 13th this year, and right in my face why the right side is stronger than the left.
I know to balance here at this point, but I knew last year I was entering a repotting year, this the next year.
I will do some light cleaning in the Fall.

@Adair M what do you think about Fall shoot pruning or beginning some late shoot selection?
Vance doesn't seem to be answering "the door" lately.

 

[Adair M]

Thanks Adair! I know I've seen those diagrams before, having them in this thread will make quick reference point. Thank you.
View attachment 322557

I found this one from April 13th this year, and right in my face why the right side is stronger than the left.
I know to balance here at this point, but I knew last year I was entering a repotting year, this the next year.
I will do some light cleaning in the Fall.

@Adair M what do you think about Fall shoot pruning or beginning some late shoot selection?
Vance doesn't seem to be answering "the door" lately.

yes, fall is a good time to thin and wire and style. Try to have only two branches come from a single intersection.

 

[sorce]

Vance doesn't seem to be answering "the door" lately.

I was worrying about that yesterday, I hope he is well.

I was also thinking about how unhappy I am with the state of my Mugo after doing the "prescribed" cuts for this time.

I still think waiting another half season or so to just cut back to further developed yet small branches is healthier, faster, and more aesthetically pleasing.

Although, I did come into it on the fence and I'm still on the fence.

Sorce