Fertilizer recommendations for young hinoki?

[Inspector34]

Hi all!

I'm new to bonsai; been collecting yamadori from my property and nearby forest for a couple of years, plus a few nursery specimens. Very much a beginner, but I do know how to care for trees so I have a little bit of a leg up. But not much. This is my first post and I'm excited to talk to experts or just ones who have more time hands-on than I. My first question here is regarding proper fertilizer for my recent little gem I found from a local nursery. I got a great little hinoki, clearly very young and tender. I've done next to nothing to it. I took 3 very small weak branches off that were hidden under the primary foliage spread and cleaned the roots and repotted it. For now, I'm using potting soil while I wait for my bonsai soil mix to come in (in the next day or two). No wiring, no shaping, no root pruning. I took it out of the nursery pot and put it into an average size grow pot that still left plenty of room for the roots to establish. I really want to put the time in on this and the first thing I would like to do is focus on growing a thicker, stronger trunk and good strong roots, however long that takes. I care for it quite a lot and it's loving the sun and shade and watering I'm giving it now. But I just don't know what the best fertilizer i should use on such tender roots. All the posts I've found online focus on more mature hinoki or a more generalize conifer fertilizer. They all say "if it's a young hinoki in development, try adjusting the ratio". Not very helpful...... Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Matt3839]

I’m using gro-power 12-12-12 on my Hinoki and it looks to be about the same size/age as yours and it seems to be liking it. I just give it one tablet every 6 weeks or so. I could probably do more but the tree is very happy so I don’t want to over do it

 

[Inspector34]

Thanks, Matt! That's what I needed. Someone doing it on something similar to mine. That's what I was missing. I don't want to be aggressive either so I'll try it the same way and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try.

 

[Inspector34]

Follow-up question: I can't seem to find any 12-12-12 tablets, only giant 32lb bags of commercial fertilizer. Would 12-8-8 be sufficient for a young cypress' needs?

 

[Matt3839]

I’m by no means an expert so I’d let some other people chime in too and see what they say. But 12-8-8 seems good, just a little less? 12-12-12 is a fairly strong NPK value but my tree has responded well to it.

I got turned onto gro-power from Bjorn Bjorholm’s bonsai streams. He also recommended osmocote plus which is a little higher NPK but I don’t like the little pellets.

I’ve also been using bio gold on a few other young trees if you wanted to use something less agressive/organic

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Greetings and Welcome to Bonsai Nut!

Interesting start to your journey into the forest of little trees! Good to see you have not pruned the roots

We usually repot Hinoki in spring to give them a better chance to recover. Would not recommend changing out the media at this time of the year. It’s a young tree and will do fine in a premium growing mix until next spring.

Be alert as Hinoki tend to like media on the moist side and potting soil can be somewhat easy to dry. Also the type of clay pot used tends to pull moisture out of the soil. So watch the moisture.

As far as fertilizer goes, this topic is has been one of deep disagreements in the past with no obvious resolutions, but can say just about any decent fertilizer will do for a tree in this stage of development. Miracid/Miracle Gro liquid fertilizer, or Osmocote Plus fertilizer will do fine for now. Once one gets a tree into the later stages of development and pot into a more stylish shallower bonsai pot, then the mix becomes more important. This tree needs to grow.

A good goal would be to grow the tree strong and taller. To do this, take care the of the tree and work to develop a discrete apex. Once wiring ensure the branch tips are all pointing slightly upward.

Again, Welcome Aboard! Looking forward to seeing the tree develop in the future.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Inspector34]

Thank you both for your insight and suggestions. I really do appreciate it. I wondered if I was overthinking it at this stage since very few online discuss specific formulas for young trees’ fertilizer.

As for the media, I’m a little confused by your comment DSD. You mention holding off changing it out until next spring. But then you caution against the potting soil that it’s currently in. Should I keep it in the potting soil until spring and just watch it carefully until then? Or should I put it in a lava rock/turface/pine park mix that I have?

I chose to move it into the clay pot on purpose. The plastic deep nursery pot it was in, the roots were sopping wet when I cleaned them out and examined them. So I thought the clay could give me a chance to take a more active role in controlling moisture. I’ve been checking it daily and watering when it only begins to dry out. If that’s a bad approach, I welcome suggestions. But it also sounds like I’m stuck with what I have until spring to make sure I don’t stress it out. I’ll be wiring the branches in the next day or so to spread the fans out a little more to give them all good sunlight.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Thank you both for your insight and suggestions. I really do appreciate it. I wondered if I was overthinking it at this stage since very few online discuss specific formulas for young trees’ fertilizer.

You are most welcome

As for the media, I’m a little confused by your comment DSD. You mention holding off changing it out until next spring. But then you caution against the potting soil that it’s currently in. Should I keep it in the potting soil until spring and just watch it carefully until then? Or should I put it in a lava rock/turface/pine park mix that I have?

It was a caution to watch for the media drying out faster than usual vs a red flag. Wouldn’t suggest repotting this time of year for a Hinoki.

Can’t say much about the lava/turface/pine bark. Have not had luck with turface. Some swear by it. We have always have stuck with A/P/L and biochar for all trees except azaleas.

I chose to move it into the clay pot on purpose. The plastic deep nursery pot it was in, the roots were sopping wet when I cleaned them out and examined them.

What’s done is done. In the future consider nurserys really know what they are doing, otherwise they’d be out of business. There is a reason why trees are in deep nursery pots in nursery blends. Plants grow fast.

If roots are wet, don’t water until the tree needs it.

The moment a tree gets put in a pot its growth slows down.

So I thought the clay could give me a chance to take a more active role in controlling moisture. I’ve been checking it daily and watering when it only begins to dry out. If that’s a bad approach, I welcome suggestions. But it also sounds like I’m stuck with what I have until spring to make sure I don’t stress it out.

Yep.

I’ll be wiring the branches in the next day or so to spread the fans out a little more to give them all good sunlight.

Might want to wait until mid fall to wire….

But, as always, your tree your choice.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Matt3839]

On the topic of fertilizer I also do a little kelp fertilizer in my water every two weeks at about 1 tsp per gallon. I use fox farms one but there’s a bunch. My plants all seem to respond well to it.

 

[TrevorLarsen]

Fertilizer isn’t a huge deal imo. I think putting energy into mastering when and how to water is a much more important thing and it is one of the harder things to master. If you water too much or too little the tree could die fast. If you didn’t fertilize at all trees would suffer and not be as vigorous, but not die for a long time. Also I have noticed an improvement in my trees when I started using kelp as well.

 

[Inspector34]

You are most welcome

It was a caution to watch for the media drying out faster than usual vs a red flag. Wouldn’t suggest repotting this time of year for a Hinoki.

Can’t say much about the lava/turface/pine bark. Have not had luck with turface. Some swear by it. We have always have stuck with A/P/L and biochar for all trees except azaleas.

What’s done is done. In the future consider nurserys really know what they are doing, otherwise they’d be out of business. There is a reason why trees are in deep nursery pots in nursery blends. Plants grow fast.

If roots are wet, don’t water until the tree needs it.

The moment a tree gets put in a pot its growth slows down.

Yep.

Might want to wait until mid fall to wire….

But, as always, your tree your choice.

Cheers
DSD sends

I hear all you're saying, but respectfully, I came here looking for advice and I plan on taking it. It may be my tree but I welcome advice and help. So thank you. You've given me a lot to think about and consider.

 

[Inspector34]

That's interesting you both mentioned kelp. I've read a little about it and found good comments on it but with my limited knowledge I wasn't sure how valuable it would be. But it seemed like a good idea since it's probably more gentle than other fertilizers so I thought I could use it combined with something else. I'll give it a go with a fertilizer I found and might try that for a month and then if all goes well I might add in kelp in the watering as Matt mentioned. I've been paying close attention to the moisture level and so far it's been doing well. When I got it from the nursery, the center of the foliage was a light yellow close to the branches but it looked very healthy. Since then, it has not spread. Instead they are hardening a little bit into more of a darker bark at the base. So I think it's just the natural process of growth into becoming branches someday. Overall, it doesn't seem stressed from over or under-watering. And I think with the amount of time I've had it in the clay pot, it doesn't seem to be responding poorly to the summer-repot boneheaded move I did. But I won't chance that again. It'll stay there until spring and I'll keep a close eye on it until then.

I will ask one last follow-up question for you all: come spring when I change out the substrate, is there a better vessel to put it in for long-term development? Should it be wider? deeper? different material like ceramic or stone? I don't love the plastic nursery pots because we do get some really hot summer days and I feel like the plastic leeches out into the water in the soil. Maybe I'm overly cautious but I can't imagine that would be very good for the roots. I just want to focus on the trunk and roots for several years now.

 

[River's Edge]

The long term development involves putting on girth in the trunk, developing nebari and for Hinoki styling taper in the trunk.
Working towards either informal upright or formal upright are the two usual choices.
I would suggest wooden grow boxes for long term growth if container development is your plan. The grow boxes will last four or five years and can be adjusted by building the size required as the tree develops.
Judging by eye the picture you provided I would estimate the current trunk diameter to be less than 1 inch. I would start with an initial grow box of 12 by 12 and six inches deep. as the tree develops increase the size appropriately! For maximum growth I would work up to a grow box 24 by 24 by 8 inches deep.
I recommend the wooden box approach because Hinoki like moist conditions and wooden containers provide even growth conditions. I would likely increase the box size every three or four years until desired outcome is achieved.

 

[Inspector34]

The long term development involves putting on girth in the trunk, developing nebari and for Hinoki styling taper in the trunk.
Working towards either informal upright or formal upright are the two usual choices.
I would suggest wooden grow boxes for long term growth if container development is your plan. The grow boxes will last four or five years and can be adjusted by building the size required as the tree develops.
Judging by eye the picture you provided I would estimate the current trunk diameter to be less than 1 inch. I would start with an initial grow box of 12 by 12 and six inches deep. as the tree develops increase the size appropriately! For maximum growth I would work up to a grow box 24 by 24 by 8 inches deep.
I recommend the wooden box approach because Hinoki like moist conditions and wooden containers provide even growth conditions. I would likely increase the box size every three or four years until desired outcome is achieved.

This is a great solution! Thank you. That makes a lot of sense to use wood grow boxes. I hadn't thought of that. It's such an early stage for this hinoki that I have no idea if I want informal or formal upright. I thought I'd let it develop a bit before seeing how nature will lend to its future design. You are right about the trunk. It is a smidge over 1/2" at its base. I had no idea going up to 12x12 was safe for a small tree. I thought moisture retention would be a problem, but with wood and good drainage I guess that's not a problem. I have some good experience with woodworking so I might even build my own boxes to give it a nice touch for the next few years. As I've read from previous messages here, I will most likely need to wait until spring to put it in a box though. Would you suggest still using a coarse medium in such a large box to start? or include some organic mixture? Thanks again.

 

[River's Edge]

. I thought moisture retention would be a problem

You are the determining factor in this respect. adapt your watering routine to get the proper results with the soil mix you choose!
Your tree is 1/2 the size I though so you could start with a smaller box if you wish or block off some volume. Depth and volume can be beneficial for even growth conditions and prevent drying out too quickly or undesirable temperature swings.
My personal advice would be to avoid surface based solely on the experience of professionals that I respect.
Do not stress too much about the type of fertilizer used, spend more care with proper dosage and regular application throughout the developmental stage.
general guideline is all three NPK below 10 and a fertilizer that has a good range of trace elements, contains microhyzae and beneficial bacteria.
Readily available in eastern USA are the products by Espoma. Here is a picture of some examples easily found in local garden centres or Home Depot.

 

[Inspector34]

I like to build, so perhaps I'll make an 8x8 box, 12x12 and some bigger ones. I have a few yamadori maples I'd like to focus on development too so I can use them right away. Advice taken on watering. I'm rather consistent in checking moisture level. I've seen roots rot out at the bottom in the past due to pooling in improper pots, but I think that was more related to bad container selection on my part than anything else. Thank you for the recommendations on the fertilizer as well. I'll do some testing on a few different young trees I have and see what they like.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Good luck. Biggest thing is to repot at the right time to optimize growth. A tree repotted at wrong time is significantly slowed down or even killed.

Good luck. I build my boxes in late fall and winter once i determine what I need for spring repotting.

 

[Inspector34]

Good luck. Biggest thing is to repot at the right time to optimize growth. A tree repotted at wrong time is significantly slowed down or even killed.

Good luck. I build my boxes in late fall and winter once i determine what I need for spring repotting.

That's what I've recently been made aware of. Unfortunately I repotted at the wrong time which I believe will slow down growth but with how it's doing I don't think it'll die thankfully. But I've learned my lesson. I'll be waiting until next spring. Maybe I'll post a pic when it's in it's new home next year. Hoping for a bigger year next year.

Good point about waiting to build the box. Who knows what it'll look like by the end of autumn with a little fertilizer boost. But then again, I have a bunch of little ones I'm developing so I might as well build lots of different sizes while I twiddle my thumbs and NOT do anything else to my trees this year. Thanks.

 

[Inspector34]

Also, here's a top-down view. It looked mostly like this when I bought it from the nursery, except that the yellow sections have started turning brown. There's nothing drying up, the tips are still very green and healthy. Everything feels really sturdy. Could this just be part of the process of branching?

 

[Orion_metalhead]

This looks like Thuja, not juniper. ??