Exposing roots on 5yr old JBP

[Matt3839]

I’ve watched a lot of exposed root videos on JBap and they all seem geared towards seedlings. I’ve got a 5 year old JBP with some 3 or 4 larger roots from the trunk. It’s planted in in a nursery container and I was wondering what the best way to develop it as an exposed root would be?

Should I wait till repot time and bare root the top half and fill in with large lava/pumice and wrap roots and put in a narrow container with a pond basket and finer particles below? This seems a little awkward since bare rooting pines isn’t advised.

or should I just remove the bottom of the nursery container and put in a pond basket with soil and gradually expose some roots since it has 3 or 4 thick roots from the trunk?

The roots at the bottom of the nursery container are all very fine and right now it’s potted in what looks like sand and bark chips.

 

[Cadillactaste]

A photo would go a long way here. For ones to advise.

 

[Shibui]

Hard to know exactly what you are planning and we can't see what the tree looks like or what sized pot it's in.
In general, there's no problem uncovering upper roots. Provided root tips are in the soil the roots will stay alive. Upper parts of roots are just the 'pipe' that takes water and nutrients from the soil to the foliage, really just an extension of the trunk.
What is the reasoning behind filling the upper roots with lava/pumice and rewrapping? If the existing roots are suitable for the exposed root I'd just be removing existing soil and leaving that section exposed.
Exposing roots does not need to be gradual. No problem exposing the full extent of the roots provided you still have root tips buried.

 

[BrightsideB]

You need to upload some photos of what you have and what your goal is to look like. Maybe a simple sketch or photo. Sometimes watching videos online can make it seem easier than it actually is. I always pushed my limits when I started and ended up in the wrong place with my trees or they died. Getting more professional advice hands on from being involved in the local club and other means helps so much more. But the practice and knowledge you learn from making those mistakes helps understand as well. You live in an area with a large bonsai presence and spectacular collections. I’d entertain the idea of participating in a club meeting of one of the clubs around you. Usually you can bring your tree and a professional is available to help guide you with what you need to do. It’s good to bring more than one tree.

 

[Matt3839]

Here’s a picture of the nebari as it is right now.

The goal would to eventually get something like the second and third photos.

Shinto - The reason for the large lava or pumice in the upper portion of the roots for seedlings from what I understand is that it promotes thicker coarser roots in the upper part that find their way down to the lower portion and begin to ramify into finer roots in the finer substrate below. Speeding up the process. But since this is not a seedling, I don’t know if that method is out.
Just wanted to see what others do with their neagari pines.

 

[Paradox]

The pines you picture as your goal, were developed from seedlings. It's going to be very difficult to get roots that are already lignified (woody) to look like that. You need to grow them like that

 

[ponderingsage]

Bonsify has the best videos about this for research. Also, Jonas has a good video through Bonsai U.(both starting with seedlings though)

If it were me, I would just keep exposing the upper roots eg cut away part of the container. Or like mentioned above go down to where the fine roots begin to appear.

I wonder if some of the thicker roots as you exposed them can be wired down… pines are pretty flexible and those roots don’t look overly heavy to me.

 

[Matt3839]

Bonsify has the best videos about this for research. Also, Jonas has a good video through Bonsai U.(both starting with seedlings though)

If it were me, I would just keep exposing the upper roots eg cut away part of the container. Or like mentioned above go down to where the fine roots begin to appear.

I wonder if some of the thicker roots as you exposed them can be wired down… pines are pretty flexible and those roots don’t look overly heavy to me.

Yeah Jonas’ bonsai tonight and bonsaify are the two main places I’ve been reading/watching. So far I’ve only found very young pines that were developed specifically for exposed root. So I’m a little worried I’m too late to do that with this one. But maybe I’ll start by exposing a bit and wire roots down?

Just wanted to see if anyone had any advice

 

[Cadillactaste]

I have an huge percentage of neagari in my collection. I really question if you are being realistic to think removing the soil line will permit these roots to hold up any tree. If you think about it. It's more than just exposed roots. It's lignified roots that holds up the structure.

Now...what's under the soil? It's a tree that wasn't set to grow roots downward. So I imagine you will run into nebari below the surface running laterally. These are high up roots that... just are unearthed.

That said... if you want neagari. Set yourself up with a long term project...get yourself young material and follow the great directions Jonas shares.

 

[Matt3839]

I have an huge percentage of neagari in my collection. I really question if you are being realistic to think removing the soil line will permit these roots to hold up any tree. If you think about it. It's more than just exposed roots. It's lignified roots that holds up the structure.

Now...what's under the soil? It's a tree that wasn't set to grow roots downward. So I imagine you will run into nebari below the surface running laterally. These are high up roots that... just are unearthed.

That said... if you want neagari. Set yourself up with a long term project...get yourself young material and follow the great directions Jonas shares.

Right. So if I understand what you’re saying it’s only something you can do with a seedling? Thanks

 

[JoB]

This is what I am attempting....scots pine and JBP...one year old , picture is 2 JBP,

 

[Cadillactaste]

Right. So if I understand what you’re saying it’s only something you can do with a seedling? Thanks

The easiest route possibly for success.

I'll add...I bought a neagari forsythia. it's neagari was bothersome...at best. I was able to at repot bare root and untangle the hot mess and resituate it. Understanding...I had to be careful not to force to the point I broke roots. As they were lignified. I can't imagine taking lateral roots and attempting it. So start with roots you can train the way needed. Seems ideal.

Can you bind the roots of this one? The root tips need kept planted...for sure as mentioned above. I dont know... anything with roots growing lateral I think will possibly not conform to the neagari look. Young seedling roots are maliable and can be trained downward.

 

[Matt3839]

Hmm ok. Maybe I’ll buy a seedling and just follow Jonas’ approach and see what I can get out of this one when I repot next spring. I pulled the 5yo out of its nursery can and The roots go down but then begin circling at the bottom of the can. So I’m thinking I can gradually expose them and pin/ bundle them

 

[Dav4]

Exposed root style trees typically begin the journey as young seedlings when they are planted on top of containers full of irregular, largish aggregate (pumice, lava, pea gravel, stone gravel) and grown there for many years.


After a period of growing and developing the trunk and branches, the container is removed to expose the roots. This one had been planted in a 1 gallon milk container and I'd been slowly peeling away the plastic from top down over a few seasons.



This is the tree above in it's first stoneware pot this past March... at least a decade in the making.

 

[Shibui]

Here’s a picture of the nebari as it is right now.

As the others have pointed out, your tree already has well established horizontal roots. That will make it a little more difficult but maybe not impossible to produce the sort of root structure you want. As pointed out, pine roots are relatively flexible. Only the needles to show scale in the photos but looks like the roots are not too thick yet so I suspect they would move relatively easily.

The reason for the large lava or pumice in the upper portion of the roots for seedlings from what I understand is that it promotes thicker coarser roots in the upper part that find their way down to the lower portion and begin to ramify into finer roots in the finer substrate below. Speeding up the process. But since this is not a seedling, I don’t know if that method is out.

Wondered if that was what you were thinking. As you've already suspected, probably not the correct stage to use that technique with this tree.

Don't worry too much about all the talk about bare rooting pines. As they age there may be some truth in those stories but young pines can cope with bare root no problem - in the right season which seems to be Spring.
I would have no problem bare rooting a pine that age. No need to totally wash all roots clean, just shake/comb most of the soil out.
Then try to push the roots into the desired shape. If they won't conform then give the neagari idea away for this tree and use the great horizontal root system someone has produced as it was intended.
If the roots are flexible enough to squeeze into the shape you want you can tie them in place. Twine is probably best as there's less chance of permanent marks on the roots but thicker wire will also work - just keep watch for it cutting in as the roots expand.
Lots of roots very close together will soon fuse into a solid mass of wood to give what looks like a thick, textured trunk. If you want to see individual roots for years to come don't include too many in the bundle (may mean pruning some right off) and leave some space between individual roots.

You can pot up with roots buried and uncover slowly over a few years but that's not the only way to do this. Provided there's enough feeder roots under soil level to keep each root alive you can easily go full exposure right away. Exposed also has the advantage of being able to keep an eye on how the roots are growing and make sure there's no damage from any ties.

I have a number of seedlings currently developing in tall pots as some of the others have shown but have also created neagari from 2, 3 and 4 year old pines so I know it can be done.

 

[Matt3839]

Thanks that’s good to know. I think I’ll manage my expectations with this one and maybe get a sapling to train for a more extreme neagari