Experimental Pot making

BonsaiJames1986

Sapling
Messages
27
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Location
Waukesha, Wisconsin, USA
USDA Zone
5a
0201211206-jpg.352560
0201210954.jpgjust some cement pots I am making. First time so its all trial by error. They are turning out and I think will be usable. I am using portland cement and sand1 to 3 ratio respectively. Still trying to research on leaching the cement and sealing. From what I'm reading these pots wont be safe to us for a month.
 
Still trying to research on leaching the cement and sealing. From what I'm reading these pots wont be safe to us for a month.

If this was true, we would remember all the dead grass and plants next to freshly poured sidewalks, yet this, we can't recall.

The sealer I used is in these thread.

Works.

Sorce
 
@BonsaiJames1986
Plan on joining the Milwaukee Bonsai Society. They just had a zoom meeting, and once outdoor activities are tolerable, will be meeting outdoors. It is an active club, with a good mix of members, from 15 to 80+ years old. Not just old fogeys. It is a good active club, and Covid permitting, will be hosting the Mid America Bonsai Association Convention in autumn 2021.


I used to work in the concrete industry, making chemicals to modify concrete. Our projects were mostly "big", think bridge decks, buildings over 50 stories, confinement vessels for nuclear power plants. The "better" product for small pots is concrete patching compound for VERTICAL patches. There are many product names that fit. Key words to look for are "vertical patching", "thin applications". These products will be a hybrid of portland cement, and a plastic polymer, either vinyl or acrylic polymer. The resulting cement paste will be more resistant to cracking. In addition, you can add plastic fibers, they look like polyethylene bow ties, these are mixed into the paste. These work in a way similar to internal frames and armatures, in terms of providing support against flexing. Concrete, has incredible compressive strength, but really poor flexural strength. I have played with credit card thickness fletches of concrete made with these hybrid cementitious-vinyl polymer blends, and they are almost as flexible as a credit card. Those were R & D lab samples. The commercial cementitious-polymer blends you can find at Home Depot won't finish that flexible. But cracking due to flexing is a big problem with concrete pots. The flexible concrete made for patching in thin applications will go a long way to making a better concrete pot. (thin in the concrete world is less than 4 inches or 10 cm).

In Southeast Asia, Viet Nam, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc, they use concrete pots almost exclusively. But, the pots they make are BIG. Because all their bonsai is intended to be grown and displayed outdoors, and outdoors only, their pots tend to be quite large, and as a result weight hundreds of pounds. But you can look at Indonesian & Vietnamese website to get inspiration.

Maturing concrete before use. After the concrete is set, just soak it in a bucket of water for a month. Change the water once or twice. This should leach and excess calcium hydroxide out. This is probably not necessary for use as a bonsai pot, the amount of leaching is not very high, but if the pot will come in contact with your goldfish pond, it is important to leach the pot.

A good all purpose concrete sealer is linseed oil, you can buy it at a paint store, or paint department of a big box. Allow the pot to dry a couple weeks, then paint it with the linseed oil. If it looks dry after the first coat, apply a second coat. The linseed oil will seal the pores, making the concrete more freeze-thaw resistant, and protecting the soil from leaching from the concrete.
 
0201211206-jpg.352560
View attachment 352561just some cement pots I am making. First time so its all trial by error. They are turning out and I think will be usable. I am using portland cement and sand1 to 3 ratio respectively. Still trying to research on leaching the cement and sealing. From what I'm reading these pots wont be safe to us for a month.
So you caught the pot building bug did you?????? Just remember the pots will only work if you use the butter flavored cooking spray! ;)
 
@BonsaiJames1986
Plan on joining the Milwaukee Bonsai Society. They just had a zoom meeting, and once outdoor activities are tolerable, will be meeting outdoors. It is an active club, with a good mix of members, from 15 to 80+ years old. Not just old fogeys. It is a good active club, and Covid permitting, will be hosting the Mid America Bonsai Association Convention in autumn 2021.


I used to work in the concrete industry, making chemicals to modify concrete. Our projects were mostly "big", think bridge decks, buildings over 50 stories, confinement vessels for nuclear power plants. The "better" product for small pots is concrete patching compound for VERTICAL patches. There are many product names that fit. Key words to look for are "vertical patching", "thin applications". These products will be a hybrid of portland cement, and a plastic polymer, either vinyl or acrylic polymer. The resulting cement paste will be more resistant to cracking. In addition, you can add plastic fibers, they look like polyethylene bow ties, these are mixed into the paste. These work in a way similar to internal frames and armatures, in terms of providing support against flexing. Concrete, has incredible compressive strength, but really poor flexural strength. I have played with credit card thickness fletches of concrete made with these hybrid cementitious-vinyl polymer blends, and they are almost as flexible as a credit card. Those were R & D lab samples. The commercial cementitious-polymer blends you can find at Home Depot won't finish that flexible. But cracking due to flexing is a big problem with concrete pots. The flexible concrete made for patching in thin applications will go a long way to making a better concrete pot. (thin in the concrete world is less than 4 inches or 10 cm).

In Southeast Asia, Viet Nam, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc, they use concrete pots almost exclusively. But, the pots they make are BIG. Because all their bonsai is intended to be grown and displayed outdoors, and outdoors only, their pots tend to be quite large, and as a result weight hundreds of pounds. But you can look at Indonesian & Vietnamese website to get inspiration.

Maturing concrete before use. After the concrete is set, just soak it in a bucket of water for a month. Change the water once or twice. This should leach and excess calcium hydroxide out. This is probably not necessary for use as a bonsai pot, the amount of leaching is not very high, but if the pot will come in contact with your goldfish pond, it is important to leach the pot.

A good all purpose concrete sealer is linseed oil, you can buy it at a paint store, or paint department of a big box. Allow the pot to dry a couple weeks, then paint it with the linseed oil. If it looks dry after the first coat, apply a second coat. The linseed oil will seal the pores, making the concrete more freeze-thaw resistant, and protecting the soil from leaching from the concrete.
I really appreciated you sharing your expertise. Is there anything I could add to make a homemade version of shapecrete? I have seen some videos on youtube but wanted to run it past you as they were making sculpture's and were not using it for our hobby. Apparently Shapecrete is not produced anymore. I am going to try everything you have suggested...thank you again.
 
If we were in an industrial setting, I could tell you how many tons of which ingredient to add to 30,000 pounds of concrete mix. Reducing the scale of mix designs to 25 or 50 pounds at a time is more math than I am willing to do. I've been retire 12 years now, and have forgotten much. I was not allowed to take proprietary formulations with me, so I don't have reference material. It is also unlikely you could get your hands on the raw materials needed. And measuring and weighing small quantities might be a problem. Some of the ingredients were added at rates like half a pound for 15,000 pound batch. Scale is the issue.

Your best bet is to experiment with commercially available concrete patching compounds. If they say they are good for thin applications, they will probably be quite good for home made pots.

Sculptors often use a product called Ciment Fondue, the word Ciment is correctly spelled. THis is a non-Portland, high aluminium content cement. Its use in industry is for foundry applications. The product, Ciment Fondue is made and sold by LaFarge Corporation, originally a French company, now I think it is a big subsidiary of an even bigger Corporation. They have a clinker plant, manufacturing Ciment, in Canada.

 
😆 When I saw the first pick, I thought... "what the hell is he eating?!
Thamk
If we were in an industrial setting, I could tell you how many tons of which ingredient to add to 30,000 pounds of concrete mix. Reducing the scale of mix designs to 25 or 50 pounds at a time is more math than I am willing to do. I've been retire 12 years now, and have forgotten much. I was not allowed to take proprietary formulations with me, so I don't have reference material. It is also unlikely you could get your hands on the raw materials needed. And measuring and weighing small quantities might be a problem. Some of the ingredients were added at rates like half a pound for 15,000 pound batch. Scale is the issue.

Your best bet is to experiment with commercially available concrete patching compounds. If they say they are good for thin applications, they will probably be quite good for home made pots.

Sculptors often use a product called Ciment Fondue, the word Ciment is correctly spelled. THis is a non-Portland, high aluminium content cement. Its use in industry is for foundry applications. The product, Ciment Fondue is made and sold by LaFarge Corporation, originally a French company, now I think it is a big subsidiary of an even bigger Corporation. They have a clinker plant, manufacturing Ciment, in Canada.

Thank you again you have been very helpful
 
Erik from eastern europe used to post here on BNut, but has not been here for many years. He makes wonderful layered looking pots in freeform designs that are made from Ciment Fondue. His pots are used by all the European bonsai artists, Walter Pall has a few of them under his trees. Maybe someone will remember his full name, you can search his website for ideas.

Anyone remember his name?
 
Cool!!

Just tagging my “HorseloverFat was here, as to be notified of updates.

🤓
 
Has its imperfections , its not perfect butni guess one could say it has unique character. The perfectionist in me goes crazy.
 

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Looking good!

Just tell the perfectionist in you, that when it comes to making your own pots... “Straight”... and “uniform” and “balanced” are HUGE goals we work toward... it’s WAY more difficult than creating ”interesting”... but you will, in time, discover a “knack” and love for BOTH.

🤓
 
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