English Hawthorn / Common Hawthorn

[Maxwell1015]

Hey new to bonsai so bear with me. I live in northwest Oregon and have English Hawthorn growing in my cow pastures. Some of them have been trampled over the years keeping them low and giving them good movement in the trunks. I found this one the other day and have a couple questions. I know Japanese hawthorn has been used in bonsai, but what about English hawthorn? When should I collect this specimen? Early fall or early spring? The main trunk is decently long maybe 6ft but has some branches near base one of which is cascading and a couple that go upright as well. I want to cut the long portion off and leave the cascading branches. Should I do this now while it is still in ground? Is this English Hawthorn worth making a bonsai out of? Thanks for any insight!

 

[namnhi]

The trunk looks interesting. I would collect it.

 

[Maxwell1015]

.

 

[Maxwell1015]

The trunk looks interesting. I would collect it.

Definitely what drew me to it. Hmm..now the question is when?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Likely Western Hawthorn vs English, yet they can make a good bonsai.

Good luck!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[BobbyLane]

Reminds me of my old English Elm

The Hawthorn is definitely worth collecting in spring.

 

[Maxwell1015]

Likely Western Hawthorn vs English, yet they can make a good bonsai.

Good luck!

Cheers
DSD sends

Thank you for the insight !

 

[Maxwell1015]

Reminds me of my old English Elm
View attachment 502169
The Hawthorn is definitely worth collecting in spring.

Beautiful tree! I will collect in spring. Thank you!

 

[Shibui]

English hawthorn is one of the easier trees to collect. They transplant real easy, even if roots are cut back severely and trunk is chopped at the same time and will sprout new buds after a trunk chop.
Occasionally I've had trunks die back to new shoots sprouting from the base of the trunk but most have no problem.
Spring collection is definitely OK. Down here with mild winters we can dig any time from leaf fall through to leaves open in spring. The window may not be quite as wide for places with colder winters.

 

[Maxwell1015]

English hawthorn is one of the easier trees to collect. They transplant real easy, even if roots are cut back severely and trunk is chopped at the same time and will sprout new buds after a trunk chop.
Occasionally I've had trunks die back to new shoots sprouting from the base of the trunk but most have no problem.
Spring collection is definitely OK. Down here with mild winters we can dig any time from leaf fall through to leaves open in spring. The window may not be quite as wide for places with colder winters.

Thank you for this!

 

[RKatzin]

Just to clarify, I don't see English Hawthorne here. Cratagus oxycantha is English Hawthorne. The name means sharp or acute thorn. Needle like thorns and I'm not seeing those like I do on my EH.
Common Hawthorne in the PNW is Cratagus monogyna. It's a completely different critter. Persnickety and cantankerous and prone to periods of poutting after root work. I've had best luck with seedlings grown in a raised bed for a few years, 3-5, and then worked into bonsai culture. I have a collected one I've had going for close to 15yrs. and it has it's seasons. It pouted for three seasons after the last root work. I mean it popped leaves in spring, but they never grew into full leaves. Just sat there for two seasons like that and a few leaves grew out in the third. I don't think it was happy in the pot I used. Too shallow, too much root exposed, so I dropped it into something deeper and it perked up pretty good last year. This year after a blistering winter she is showing a lot of vacant branches, but a lot of new shoots.
It's that kind of rollercoaster ride, I like the English Hawthorne much more. Needle thorns and all.

 

[Shibui]

Just to clarify, I don't see English Hawthorne here. Cratagus oxycantha is English Hawthorne. The name means sharp or acute thorn. Needle like thorns and I'm not seeing those like I do on my EH.
Common Hawthorne in the PNW is Cratagus monogyna.

This shows the problems of using common names. Same plants can have many different names in different places. Both C. monogyna and C. laevigata seem to be referred to as English hawthorn.
My refs show that C. oxycantha is not a valid plant name. C. monogyna is the proper name for the species. That appears to be the species that has naturalized down here and is listed as a weed species in my area so it is C. monogyna I referred to above.
Apologies for any ambiguity.

 

[TomB]

Just to clarify, I don't see English Hawthorne here. Cratagus oxycantha is English Hawthorne. The name means sharp or acute thorn. Needle like thorns and I'm not seeing those like I do on my EH.
Common Hawthorne in the PNW is Cratagus monogyna. It's a completely different critter. Persnickety and cantankerous and prone to periods of poutting after root work. I've had best luck with seedlings grown in a raised bed for a few years, 3-5, and then worked into bonsai culture. I have a collected one I've had going for close to 15yrs. and it has it's seasons. It pouted for three seasons after the last root work. I mean it popped leaves in spring, but they never grew into full leaves. Just sat there for two seasons like that and a few leaves grew out in the third. I don't think it was happy in the pot I used. Too shallow, too much root exposed, so I dropped it into something deeper and it perked up pretty good last year. This year after a blistering winter she is showing a lot of vacant branches, but a lot of new shoots.
It's that kind of rollercoaster ride, I like the English Hawthorne much more. Needle thorns and all.

This specimen looks like it has loads of potential. I would definitely consider collecting it.

If this is Craetagus monogyna, that is an absolutely superb species for bonsai - one of the best deciduous species available in Europe. For some inspiration and information on collecting, maintenance, styling and so on have a look at https://yamadori.co.uk/lots-of-bonsai-resources/ or https://www.kaizenbonsai.com/bonsai-tree-care-information/potting-yamadori-hawthorn-for-bonsai https://www.kaizenbonsai.com/bonsai-tree-care-information/getting-bonsai-hawthorns-to-flower

I find they bud pretty early in spring, so they are among the first trees I repot. I would collect once the buds have swollen and started to change colour, and are starting to look like opening - so as you say early spring.

I wouldn't cut back the top now - you'll want it to do its job of producing resources for the tree. I'd cut the long portion off either during the winter or when you collect it.

As others have said I find they prefer a deeper pot.

 

[August44]

What color are the berries and what does a leaf look like pls. If the berries are black, Black Hawthorn. If red, English Hawthorn. Leaves on Black are only weakly lobed compared to the English that is more heavily lobed.

 

[RKatzin]

This shows the problems of using common names. Same plants can have many different names in different places. Both C. monogyna and C. laevigata seem to be referred to as English hawthorn.
My refs show that C. oxycantha is not a valid plant name. C. monogyna is the proper name for the species. That appears to be the species that has naturalized down here and is listed as a weed species in my area so it is C. monogyna I referred to above.
Apologies for any ambiguity.

Thanks for the clarification, always appreciated.