End of Season Update

[JBP_85]

Hi Everyone,
With summer ending I wanted to give an update on how my RoR Trident Maple progress as well as share some other progress pics of my other trees. I've taken the advice of others here and decided to just let the seedlings grow. I think they've done quite well bit welcome thoughts and suggestions.

Back in March I planted two RoR trident seedlings (below) following @Shibui 's method. One of them sadly didn't make it but the other has really flourished.

How it started:


How it's going:


I really like the trunk width that has developed thus far. I considered chopping the vertical growth about a month or so ago but decided to just let it do its thing for now.

I also planted another trident seedling that is coming along nicely, though not as vigorous as the above.



I plan on making a similar Styrofoam planter for it in the spring and see if I can get more vigor next year. The lower branches I've kept on as sacrificial bran he's and hope that they'll help develop the trunk.

My other trees have also done fairly well. My foundling Eastern Red Cedar has fared well but hasn't put on much growth. My Dawn Redwood has a lot of vertical growth but seems very bare bones. I'm interested in getting everyone's thoughts on if I should chop or how to proceed. Lastly my Bald Cypress has grown some but seems to be slow going, which I think is normal for the species.

Eastern Red Cedar:


Dawn Redwood:


Bald Cypress:

 

[Forsoothe!]

"Let grow" is really better spoken of as "waste time and wood because the owner doesn't actually know how to MANAGE growth". Every picture here shows a tree that will need to be cut back 90%. That's 10% effective. The government is more efficient than that. Boo Hiss

 

[Eckhoffw]

"Let grow" is really better spoken of as "waste time and wood because the owner doesn't actually know how to MANAGE growth". Every picture here shows a tree that will need to be cut back 90%. That's 10% effective. The government is more efficient than that. Boo Hiss

You do know how incredibly confusing this statement is to a new bonsai hobbyist right?

 

[Forsoothe!]

The OP needs to witness an argument about how to proceed in bonsai from day one to the end of the line. The first rule of Penjing is, "First, enjoy your planting". It seems the first rule of bonsai is buy a stick, put it in a pot and cut it down once in a while. Notice that the fun part is left out along with the doing something constructive. Want a bigger plant? Buy one, the nursery industry can grow cheaper and better and you can have it in the next hour. Compare that to the stick in the pot for 10 years routine. There needs to be a reasonable amount of feedback in order for someone to continue in any endeavor. Feedback means the self-satisfaction one gets by doing something and being able to say, "Look! I made a bonsai." If you want to discourage people from continuing in bonsai, tell them they must first do this or that which will give them no satisfaction for a long period instead of guiding them to do hands-on work right now. Tell me exactly what growing-on sticks is going to teach a newbee in the early years OF BONSAI? Very little. That verses screwing up a few $10 nursery trees? Nothing teaches better than doing, even if doing wrong. In fact, we all know that doing it wrong imprints on the brain, "Boy, I'm not going to do that again!" Imposing the standards of Japanese experts on people just getting their toes wet is stupid, and counter-productive, and not good for the art. What I do is to defend beginning bonsai by having a person doing something that encourages the person to go to the next step. Growing stock from sticks is a different business and can come later, naturally. Fun first, serious work comes later as the skills and intellect grow.

 

[Cajunrider]

None of your trees are ready for chopping for the next 2 or 3 years IMHO.
If you want to see serious growth for your BC, next growing season put it in a very large shallow pot then dunk that pot in a big tub with about 1" of water at all time. Change the water every 2-3 weeks. Either that or water the heck out of it. My 14 months old BC is this big when I drench it every day and fertilized every 3 weeks.

Forsoothe does have a point. If you want big trees to learn and develop, it is far quicker to get one at the nursery. For me the only reason I grow BCs from seeds is because I want total control of the root development from day 1. The 6ft tall BC above can be had for around $20 at Home Depot or Lowes or any nursery. 3" trunk can be had at around $100. I only do this because the seeds are every where here and I was growing many BC seedlings for my land. When I grow 100 BCs for about $5 each (soil & fertilizer & stuff) then it makes economic sense. However, for bonsai going to the nursery buy one for $50 in the spring then chop it and develop branches that season. One can get to wiring early summer and see the tree develop in a year. That is good instant feed back.

 

[Eckhoffw]

The OP needs to witness an argument about how to proceed in bonsai from day one to the end of the line. The first rule of Penjing is, "First, enjoy your planting". It seems the first rule of bonsai is buy a stick, put it in a pot and cut it down once in a while. Notice that the fun part is left out along with the doing something constructive. Want a bigger plant? Buy one, the nursery industry can grow cheaper and better and you can have it in the next hour. Compare that to the stick in the pot for 10 years routine. There needs to be a reasonable amount of feedback in order for someone to continue in any endeavor. Feedback means the self-satisfaction one gets by doing something and being able to say, "Look! I made a bonsai." If you want to discourage people from continuing in bonsai, tell them they must first do this or that which will give them no satisfaction for a long period instead of guiding them to do hands-on work right now. Tell me exactly what growing-on sticks is going to teach a newbee in the early years OF BONSAI? Very little. That verses screwing up a few $10 nursery trees? Nothing teaches better than doing, even if doing wrong. In fact, we all know that doing it wrong imprints on the brain, "Boy, I'm not going to do that again!" Imposing the standards of Japanese experts on people just getting their toes wet is stupid, and counter-productive, and not good for the art. What I do is to defend beginning bonsai by having a person doing something that encourages the person to go to the next step. Growing stock from sticks is a different business and can come later, naturally. Fun first, serious work comes later as the skills and intellect grow.

Couldn’t agree more! I’m more addressing the the problem with beginners buying a tree and constantly working it to death!
Keep doing and learning for sure! Buy many plants to try many things.
Yes, if you want a bigger tree, buy a bigger one for sure. This makes total sense.

However, we (I) also have to step away and let the plant grow between assaults. Having many trees is key.

 

[River's Edge]

So essentially the advice for this particular situation is to let it grow. However, some prefer to let someone else let it grow before purchasing it. However that removes any control over the development process. But somehow it is deemed desirable to purchase after the roots are spoiled and the trunk is too straight for most situations. But somehow this is preferable and the individual is wrong for listening to appropriate advice for their situation.

Perhaps one could consider multiple directions, valuable lessons can be learned on various roads leading to the same destination. For some Bonsai is developing, for others it is refining, others work on transforming natures gift in Yamadori. Then again some dabble in all aspects.

A case could be made for those who choose to purchase fully developed trees and then work on turning them into refined show trees. But then those individuals have limited their knowledge and experience to a small portion of the Bonsai world.

How about some respect for those who do the unglamorous work of producing suitable material for the artist to transform?

JBP_85 is not doing anything wrong, nor are the suggestions for the direction he has chosen to take!

 

[Cajunrider]

So essentially the advice for this particular situation is to let it grow. However, some prefer to let someone else let it grow before purchasing it. However that removes any control over the development process. But somehow it is deemed desirable to purchase after the roots are spoiled and the trunk is too straight for most situations. But somehow this is preferable and the individual is wrong for listening to appropriate advice for their situation.

Perhaps one could consider multiple directions, valuable lessons can be learned on various roads leading to the same destination. For some Bonsai is developing, for others it is refining, others work on transforming natures gift in Yamadori. Then again some dabble in all aspects.

A case could be made for those who choose to purchase fully developed trees and then work on turning them into refined show trees. But then those individuals have limited their knowledge and experience to a small portion of the Bonsai world.

How about some respect for those who do the unglamorous work of producing suitable material for the artist to transform?

JBP_85 is not doing anything wrong, nor are the suggestions for the direction he has chosen to take!

I am all for the multiple directions. That suits my ADHD to a T.
Tremendous respect for those who develop prebonsai for sure.

 

[Mara of dragon clan]

Could it be a misconception of what bonsai is? Like many people think if you get seeds from amazon you get a big ol tree thats on the image of the tag.

With many "beginners" who have more years than i do that ive spoken to near me- they keep conifers indoor all year, and grow them from seed for 6 years just to find them dying.

Bonsai to begin with was about collecting material in the wild and figuring out how to keep it alive in a pot. The fun of learning how to imitate nature through horticulture

But id love to be corrected if im wrong.

 

[Forsoothe!]

The only conifer to be kept indoors in Ontario is a Redwood (Coast Redwood maybe?), and that in a breezeway or something like that. There are very few other conifers that are for zones warmer than 7 to 9. If it's tropical it's a houseplant, but only maybe gets enough light inside. All others belong outdoors. The reason for them lasting 6 years is: a miracle.

 

[Cajunrider]

The only conifer to be kept indoors in Ontario is a Redwood (Coast Redwood maybe?), and that in a breezeway or something like that. There are very few other conifers that are for zones warmer than 7 to 9. If it's tropical it's a houseplant, but only maybe gets enough light inside. All others belong outdoors. The reason for them lasting 6 years is: a miracle.

Yep six years indoor without good artificial lighting would be a miracle.

 

[A. Gorilla]

Gonna have to tip my fedora to forsoothe.
You'd be making way more hay by getting something more or less ready to wire or ramify.

Even as far as nursery stuff goes, your choices do not represent being wise and selective.

Ryan Neil is more explicit than anyone else about tempo and strategy. Whatever it is, get this thing show ready ASAP. Not slow and contemplative, as we usually think of it.

What could be funner than that?

The trade off is a very front heavy load of craftsmanship, technique, horticultural knowledge, and discerning choices in material.

Speaking as someone who hasnt followed my own advice for most of my span in bonsai. But hey it was pre-internet.

 

[Scrogdor]

Hmm, coming from a beginner, I have tons of sticks in pots. Many of them, I just want to show I can keep them alive, eventually give em some big chops, repot, prune, wire etc…. It’s a new and exciting world when we first start, there is something attractive about having a couple sticks on the side that I can watch grow to become something or nothing. It’s awesome when people show from smol tree to swol tree time lapses.

That being said, I do agree @Forsoothe! with having at least one okay quality pre-bonsai that is ready for refinement or shaping. I made this mistake and I ended up just pruning some of the sticks I have to watch the branches split into two, and then learn how to wire those. I’d feel sick to my stomach if I paid up for the often expensive quality pre bonsai and killed it, or broke a major branch, cut off too much roots simply because I hadn’t practiced on anything else.
Come late winter/early spring I’ll be looking for a good quality pre-bonsai I can begin to Ramify and wire without having to worry about “letting it run wild”. Cheers