Eastern red cedar (Juniperus Virginiana) yamadori styling

[One First Matter All]

Yes, I know placing the word "styling" next to "eastern red cedar" will irritate those who believe any attempt to bonsai an ERC is hopeless (see, e.g, https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/new-need-red-cedar-ideas.44396/#post-757791). However, I couldn't resist collecting this tree a while back. Also, I live in Indiana, and these trees are the ones I most associate with the "old" and "weathered" look--in other words, bonsai.

It *seems* to be recovering nicely from the transplant. I don't plan to do anything but water and mist it until next year. At the same time, I'm excited by its potential. I'm looking for ideas on how I should shape it initially. This tree has clearly been through hell and back. It's almost a raft planting, with a strong shoot rising vertically from the horizontal deadwood. It also holds some cascade potential, if I were to eliminate the vertical shoot and allow the horizontal shoot that extends from the deadwood to continue growing.

Any ideas? Also, I apologize for the inability to really see the foliage. I didn't want to disturb the tree by moving in order to position it against
a neutral backdrop.

 

[hinmo24t]

your seems cool...tough to tell difference from Atlantic white cedar which i also have around me.
i just got rid of a few beauties i have when i acquired a purple crabapple. because of the apple cedar rust i threw out 4 baby ERC i had going.
both apple and ERC are native in my area anyway so i could still get the rust, just thought having both hosts species next to each other wasnt smart. tough call. heres one i got rid of:

 

[hinmo24t]

too bad for apple cedar rust because i love those trees too

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I am one of the negative nellies on ERC. But you did manage to collect an interesting trunk. I would not go for a full cascade. But I would try to exaggerate the horizontal movement of this tree. The middle branch that is vertical, I would wire it to move to the right with the other branches, it is breaking the pattern.

Nice, go slow working on it. ERC does not like being "over-worked".

 

[One First Matter All]

The middle branch that is vertical, I would wire it to move to the right with the other branches, it is breaking the pattern.

I hadn't thought about the possibility of turning the vertical branch horizontal--might give that a try (next year, of course!). Thanks for the idea!

 

[One First Matter All]

Also, for anyone interested, I put the tree in this livestock feeder pan:

3 Gallon Black Plastic Pan Feeder | Rural King

3 Gallon Black Plastic Pan Feeder

www.ruralking.com

Pretty cheap, and fairly durable. I drilled some rather sizeable holes in the bottom to encourage good drainage. Other feed pans that specify for minerals come with holes pre-drilled (got one of those in the shed awaiting another yamadori). Just be sure to get plastic and not the rubber ones. Much too flimsy.

 

[Gabler]

I'm a big fan of ERC, not necessarily as bonsai specifically, but overall as trees. A great pioneer species for poor soils, and the dense, aromatic wood is great for furniture and woodfire grilling. I'm eager to hear whether your tree makes it through spring.

 

[vancehanna]

Apple Juniper Cedar Rust it can be totally controlled with simple annual applications of Ferbam mixed as a spray in early Spring prior to and when the fungus is active.
Lordy! the folks that hate this specie really are snobs. And fifty years ago when I showed this yamadori to my club that I had just joined (which was only 2yrs old at the time hah!) all I heard was: "you can't do that". " It'll never be a bonsai, it can't be done." (PS all of them, the folks are all passed on and never had much to do with bonsai anyhow....some were puppet masters, good talkers and such but none had bonsai of any quality either purchased or nursery stock....hah! The only guy that had anything going was Ray Boardman, who started the club and many other clubs in and around the Detroit area. But Ray really didn't have any 'bonsai' he had encouragement and stamina.

Bonsai that is quality either purchased from an established bonsai house, yamadori or for seed TAKES TIME AND PATIENCE. Beyond the time and patience it might take a bit of knowledge with regards to a particular species growth patterns. And beyond that some design idea would be nice.

"If all the award winning bonsai came in a bottle, we'd all had ve it!"

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Lordy! the folks that hate this specie really are snobs.

I’ll wear that badge, since you’re digging up an old thread to make a statement. I’ve seen quite a few ERC which are technically bonsai, but never a particularly good one. I guess I’m a snob if I prefer Shimpaku with its soft foliage, disease resistance, and predictable growth habits.

 

[vancehanna]

Nothing wrong with traditionals....I love 'em and have them too.... Yet how many 'yamadori' have become a bonsai from Shimpaku? Not many in my knowledge....at least not in this past century here in the US. A lot of bonsai people here in the US who show some really spectacular stuff did not find (yamadori) or start the work from a seed or a nursery. They were, as Keith Scott would say: "Check Book Artists"..... I can think certainly of many who frequent shows and such....

I"m not knocking those who have the means to purchase excellent specimen bonsai, not at all. They in many cases support this hobby as Jack Wikle once said to me. They support the nurseries and those who make their living with this means.

Yet: those who go against the 'norm' of the preferred species and , patiently work and have put in the time in many cases produced some spectacular results are snubbed.
My very good friend and namesake, Vance Wood is one of the few truly great artists I have known. This artist is just that: an artist in bonsai and yeah, he's a stinker and a grumpy old guy at times but you must give him credit for what he's done with a species that sure can become bonsai, but who did it? Vance Wood that's who!

Bonsai in this country is very very young. There are many species here in the North American Continent that are becoming bonsai.
Dan Robinson with his collected Ponderosa's (which are exceedingly difficult to turn into a bonsai of worth) has done miracles.
Exceedingly long needles and internodes... Yet the typical collected Ponderosa is very lacking...(sorry Andy).

Certainly without a doubt, the preferred specie is JBP. I have them, I 've grown then from seedling....and they take some time and understanding of which I'm just beginning in a sense to understand. Same with JWP.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Nothing wrong with traditionals....I love 'em and have them too.... Yet how many 'yamadori' have become a bonsai from Shimpaku? Not many in my knowledge....at least not in this past century here in the US. A lot of bonsai people here in the US who show some really spectacular stuff did not find (yamadori) or start the work from a seed or a nursery. They were, as Keith Scott would say: "Check Book Artists"..... I can think certainly of many who frequent shows and such....

I"m not knocking those who have the means to purchase excellent specimen bonsai, not at all. They in many cases support this hobby as Jack Wikle once said to me. They support the nurseries and those who make their living with this means.

Yet: those who go against the 'norm' of the preferred species and , patiently work and have put in the time in many cases produced some spectacular results are snubbed.
My very good friend and namesake, Vance Wood is one of the few truly great artists I have known. This artist is just that: an artist in bonsai and yeah, he's a stinker and a grumpy old guy at times but you must give him credit for what he's done with a species that sure can become bonsai, but who did it? Vance Wood that's who!

Bonsai in this country is very very young. There are many species here in the North American Continent that are becoming bonsai.
Dan Robinson with his collected Ponderosa's (which are exceedingly difficult to turn into a bonsai of worth) has done miracles.
Exceedingly long needles and internodes... Yet the typical collected Ponderosa is very lacking...(sorry Andy).

Certainly without a doubt, the preferred specie is JBP. I have them, I 've grown then from seedling....and they take some time and understanding of which I'm just beginning in a sense to understand. Same with JWP.

It’s always the same. People who continue to defend ERC bonsai just muddy the argument instead of simply producing a spectacular example of one.

The argument is not a comparison of whether you dig up an ERC vs buy a $12 nursery Shimpaku and grow it out, or stroke a check for a nice import, it’s a matter of growth characteristics which makes ERC difficult. I have collected and tried ERC many times early on, but they proved frustrating for me due to fungal issues, branch ’memory‘ that requires constant training, and the tendency to sprout juvenile foliage at the crotches, while abandoning branches. Shimpaku simply responds better to bonsai training, which is why plenty of spectacular Shimpaku examples are available.

I’m not here to convince you that you’re wrong, I just haven’t seen anything to change my mind about ERC bonsai.

 

[vancehanna]

Brian,
I think you’ll find in the future that there are and will be some excellent cultivars of this indigenous species as outstanding bonsai....Jack Douthitt has some sub cultivars that are worthy...and published...
It is a very nascent attempt with J. Virginianna at this point in American bonsai.... patience and persistence ...
Shimpaku is right there: easy and anyone can do it...instantly forgiving. They are the pinnacle,the “BMW and recognizable.” Forsooth, because of their Asian heritage no one can argue with that!

To wander out of bounds and search out the unusual is not the norm....consternation at best... is not for everyone.

The Visa Card is more or less the answer for most
Which is the norm for This culture of instant everything... today

as well as to mimic the best with carbon copies of what works...

nothing wrong with that ... it’s zeitgeist.

I recall as Toshio Saburomaru used to say:
“Enjoy your bonsai” and that was over Fifty years ago when I wondered into his place off the 101 fwy as a grad student at Stanford. “Ignorant of the Art and not much more at this point.”

“Enjoy your bonsai”

 

[vancehanna]

Working on this guy at 48 yrs since dug... need to pull the branches down a bit and shorten them here and there.

Planning on a report to shallower pot and clean/ strip the bark and do a bit of lime sulpher...
this tree produces both immature and mature foliage. At times over the years it has been in full adult softer foliage. However it have done considerable work over the years and maybe at some point it produce more adult foilage. No biggie...

Just a simple field dug & topped and turned up and turned up etc (earlier thread had detail) when I didn’t know anything , and know less now ! Hah!

haven’t seen any rust in a decade or more...Ferbam keeps it in check.
110cm from lip of pot to terminal

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Not a spectacular bonsai, IMO, especially for 48 years of work. It’s ok, but what did it look like 20 years ago?

 

[vancehanna]

Dan Robinson awarded it First in Chicago 20 years ago and mentioned it in his public crit that it was a fine example of a tree that could be seen in the pacific NW...
Hah!
not a spectacular tree just a bum ERC...

 

[penumbra]

Working on this guy at 48 yrs since dug... need to pull the branches down a bit and shorten them here and there.

Planning on a report to shallower pot and clean/ strip the bark and do a bit of lime sulpher...
this tree produces both immature and mature foliage. At times over the years it has been in full adult softer foliage. However it have done considerable work over the years and maybe at some point it produce more adult foilage. No biggie...

Just a simple field dug & topped and turned up and turned up etc (earlier thread had detail) when I didn’t know anything , and know less now ! Hah!

haven’t seen any rust in a decade or more...Ferbam keeps it in check.
110cm from lip of pot to terminal

I think it is fabulous. Seriously it is truely stunning. It doesn't need to follow all the rules. In my humble opinion it follows the most basic rule. It looks like an old wild tree.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Dan Robinson awarded it First in Chicago 20 years ago and mentioned it in his public crit that it was a fine example of a tree that could be seen in the pacific NW...
Hah!
not a spectacular tree just a bum ERC...

Congratulations. I showed a bougainvillea at the MABA show in about 1998. Mine was definitely not spectacular.

 

[vancehanna]

I think it is fabulous. Seriously it is truely stunning. It doesn't need to follow all the rules. In my humble opinion it follows the most basic rule. It looks like an old wild tree.

Thank you

 

[vancehanna]

Congratulations. I showed a bougainvillea at the MABA show in about 1998. Mine was definitely not spectacular.

Thanks

 

[Paradox]

It’s the month of August in New York I found a couple of Eastern red Cedar’s in the woods I’m wondering if I can dig it up now or do I have to wait another month? Plus I’m wondering if when I dig it up can I do a root reduction now and put it into a bonsai pot, or do I have to keep the roots and put it in a regular big pot for a year before reducing it down to bonsai? Thanks

Please see the responses to your post in the other thread and the thread you started on the subject.