Does anyone know what the hell this is

[Shogun610]

So I posted my CBS before , and notated on some new year growth that is shriveling up .. I asked some seasoned folks on here that might have more knowledge on fungi or if it’s pest damage. I water this CBS every day in the summer here in 6b , it needs to be repotted , it’s in a plastic vat in mostly pumice and it’s collected soil. I know it’s used to heat in the Rockies but not the humidity here on east , so I do mostly water daily and fertilizer weekly w fish fertilizer. It gets full sun so wtf is the catch. I know CBS does well here because my teacher has a few bonsai , and has recommended I use Macozeb. I have been using biofungicide amyloliquefaciens on foliage and soil …and bug sprays such as bacillus thurengiensis and Captain jacks bug spray interchangeably on foliage I haven’t noticed small webs on the tree or any larvae. I checked and there were two new locations , but I’m still stumped … buds are healthy and most of all needles are fine and it appears healthy.. I just don’t want this to get worse or not know how to manage it ..not sure if they were damaged during budding out, picture during bud extension , no signs of this issue. Or if this was physical during shipment ? I posted the same question on Mirai forum and boy does that forum suck.

 

[LanceMac10]

One thing is for sure. If this is pictured in situ, probably getting poor drainage. Got a "rack" of some sort to allow un-fettered drainage?

...maybe damp soil is suffocating roots as opposed to a fungal problem?

 

[Shogun610]

Yeah I took it off the slate it’s on the bench to drain freely. I could try tipping ?

 

[sorce]

Good Tree Good Person = Heavy Pause

If there's good news, next year's buds look good.

Everything Else is quite shocking and it reads down oddly in one WTF after the other, which leaves me with questions like.....

When was it potted last?
Where was it shipped from? When?
When was it wired? Why?
Why a Plastic Bin? That would be ok too in the Rockies, seems a death sentence and the only problem currently there.

Then the life in the soil that could help regulate water in soil conditions, dead. To band-aid a problem that needs prevention, ill pictured. Leaving it too unhealthy to Repot when that is the only problem.

Seems not spraying it anymore is the only reasonable way out of the current situation.

The balance of foliage to pot is extremely off, it feels problematic.

I think those questions, when answered, may lead me to being upset at someone, or some system.

It feels disrespected.

Sorce

 

[Shogun610]

Good Tree Good Person = Heavy Pause

If there's good news, next year's buds look good.

Everything Else is quite shocking and it reads down oddly in one WTF after the other, which leaves me with questions like.....

When was it potted last?
Where was it shipped from? When?
When was it wired? Why?
Why a Plastic Bin? That would be ok too in the Rockies, seems a death sentence and the only problem currently there.

Then the life in the soil that could help regulate water in soil conditions, dead. To band-aid a problem that needs prevention, ill pictured. Leaving it too unhealthy to Repot when that is the only problem.

Seems not spraying it anymore is the only reasonable way out of the current situation.

The balance of foliage to pot is extremely off, it feels problematic.

I think those questions, when answered, may lead me to being upset at someone, or some system.

It feels disrespected.

Sorce

It was collected in 2018 , plastic bin has holes at the bottom but not ideal which is why I need to repot it. I got it May 10. It was wired last fall… what you mean disrespected ? I didn’t do anything ? The foliage needs to back bud and develop.. main focus is the roots .. like I said there are holes at the bottom .. I wonder if scraping away at the top would help too or drilling more holes ..Even though it does have good drainage.

 

[sorce]

disrespected ? I didn’t do anything

Seems so.

What about the shipping and from where and who are you protecting that I'm trying to be mad at for that "disrespect"?

Sorce

 

[Shogun610]

Seems so.

What about the shipping and from where and who are you protecting that I'm trying to be mad at for that "disrespect"?

Sorce

Disrespecting what? It came from Nebraska.. I’ve been doing all I can to continue the care for it best I can .. I think it has a great future and good tree I like the design which is what drew it to me , and have seen my teacher e CBS that came from Todd as well.. it’s either container w poor drainage so I need to get more aeration

 

[Colorado]

Honestly, it does not look super concerning to me. I have a few thoughts:

1. I would stop applying fungicides and pesticides.

2. There has been discussion that perhaps spruce are not as sun-tolerant in highly humid areas as they are at elevation. Could be a slight degree of sunburn. If so, does not look severe.

3. I would not go messing with the roots right now, poking holes in the soil, etc.

4. I would repot in spring when the buds are just starting to show blue.

5. I’d fertilize heavily now through October with organic fertilizer only.

I bet it will be just fine next year after you get it out of the collection container. 4 years in there could also be contributing.

Just my 2 cents…

 

[ShadyStump]

I've never had one in a pot, but these grow all over near me.
If you're concern is the bits of damaged foliage that's not abnormal. Probably got slightly dry or otherwise damaged at one point when it was young.
Going from Nebraska to Pennsylvania is a big climate shift, so it's still adapting. Continue care as prescribed by your teacher for your climate, and relax a bit.

 

[Shogun610]

Honestly, it does not look super concerning to me. I have a few thoughts:

1. I would stop applying fungicides and pesticides.

2. There has been discussion that perhaps spruce are not as sun-tolerant in highly humid areas as they are at elevation. Could be a slight degree of sunburn. If so, does not look severe.

3. I would not go messing with the roots right now, poking holes in the soil, etc.

4. I would repot in spring when the buds are just starting to show blue.

5. I’d fertilize heavily now through October with organic fertilizer only.

I bet it will be just fine next year after you get it out of the collection container. 4 years in there could also be contributing.

Just my 2 cents…

I agree the container is definitely a contributing factor for water & oxygen.

 

[Shogun610]

Thanks all for input, I will be happy to update next spring post repot

 

[Dav4]

One thing I've realized about the new needles on CBS is that they are VERY fragile until they harden off and simply brushing up against them may cause some damage. I agree with @Colorado that whatever you've got that's damaging those needles, it's minor and unlikely to adversely affect the health of the tree. Humidity and high temps may be an issue... I'm honestly not sure... but probably providing a little afternoon shade when you're in the summer soup isn't a bad idea. I'm giving mine as much sun as I can here in MI but it's not as hot/humid as southern NJ (gonna be 90+ F with dewpoints pushing 70 today and for the next few days, though). I'd plan on re-potting this into an appropriately sized bonsai pot in an APL mix with an extra serving of pumice next spring, and plan on getting rid of at least half of the field soil aka half bare root. Have fun... nice tree!

 

[sorce]

Disrespecting what?

The tree, the art.

It's not your fault, I never assumed it was.

IMO, the tree in it's current state shouldn't have been (sold at all) shipped without specific instructions to do absolutely nothing for a few years, but then that leaves you stuck in that wretched pot situation. It has the benefit of white, every other physical characteristic is a detriment. So it's a lose lose for you almost certainly.

Then, these trees that have spent their entire lives, "living off their own death", are prescribed poison on top of poison, on top of BT, which is "organic", but about as discriminate as an Obama drone strike, which fools us with "organic", but it still destroys our garden.

This is like an introduced disease to native people.

I prefer to keep the odds greater in the favor of ourselves, but more importantly the tree, that's why it's been disrespected.

Bjorn taught us that in Japan, they spend 2 days driving around their much smaller Island to properly move trees.
Yet we put them in the hands of a very unproven and rapidly worsening shipping system, to be sent across a country with climate differences up to a thousand slices if Japan has 100.

There is great foolishness in that, fueled by greed.

Sorce

 

[Shogun610]

The tree, the art.

It's not your fault, I never assumed it was.

IMO, the tree in it's current state shouldn't have been (sold at all) shipped without specific instructions to do absolutely nothing for a few years, but then that leaves you stuck in that wretched pot situation. It has the benefit of white, every other physical characteristic is a detriment. So it's a lose lose for you almost certainly.

Then, these trees that have spent their entire lives, "living off their own death", are prescribed poison on top of poison, on top of BT, which is "organic", but about as discriminate as an Obama drone strike, which fools us with "organic", but it still destroys our garden.

This is like an introduced disease to native people.

I prefer to keep the odds greater in the favor of ourselves, but more importantly the tree, that's why it's been disrespected.

Bjorn taught us that in Japan, they spend 2 days driving around their much smaller Island to properly move trees.
Yet we put them in the hands of a very unproven and rapidly worsening shipping system, to be sent across a country with climate differences up to a thousand slices if Japan has 100.

There is great foolishness in that, fueled by greed.

Sorce

In defense of where I got it from it was and still mostly is in good shape .. the whole reason I posted this was to see what the root cause and corrective action could be remainder of season before I repot in spring.. in my experience so far when I see something off in my trees I’m just being super super careful w this one .. I did get lengthy instructions and applied what I know .. but I think the shift in climate is a factor since how they water vs how I neeed to water / feed is different , I’m not just some goof that’s getting a tree and then carelessly killing it . It’s just me being me and I throw a million ideas etc to figure it out since literature hasn’t helped .. but I appreciate the feedback from all. I have worked w spruce before but haven’t noticed the needles before on anything , and CBS does do well in my area since I’ve seen them at the studio. But I think repotting will be what is best.

 

[sorce]

But I think repotting will be what is best.

I agree, I just wish the system didn't have you in that predicament and I only hope to set you up to not find yourself in it again.

I believe whole heartedly, because of Todd's first take over at Mirai Live, and after meeting him, that he most certainly has a good heart, but as I learned from watching these Ray Archuleta soil conferences, it's about a shift in thinking that leads folks to a righteous path equivalent to what their heart is protruding.

I have no doubt the numbers game to serve the "need to make a living" is same for bonsai growers as it is for farmers.

Perhaps we should encourage forwarding payment on these trees for their worth in their current states, then pay the shipping and higher price when they are in more health after a couple years.

This would allow our beloved suppliers to continue to fund their enterprise, help us all exercise Patience, and leave the entire Bonsai community able to enjoy more and better trees.

It makes me sick that all we here is "have more patience have more patience", yet rarely if ever practice it fully.

Sorce

 

[GGB]

I was told by a guy in central PA that his CBS thrive in dappled shade. He told me it was why his trees looked better than everyone else’s. But he also told me he was a “bonsai master” so take that with a grain of salt haha. Seems like others here agree though

 

[Colorado]

I agree, I just wish the system didn't have you in that predicament and I only hope to set you up to not find yourself in it again.

I believe whole heartedly, because of Todd's first take over at Mirai Live, and after meeting him, that he most certainly has a good heart, but as I learned from watching these Ray Archuleta soil conferences, it's about a shift in thinking that leads folks to a righteous path equivalent to what their heart is protruding.

I have no doubt the numbers game to serve the "need to make a living" is same for bonsai growers as it is for farmers.

Perhaps we should encourage forwarding payment on these trees for their worth in their current states, then pay the shipping and higher price when they are in more health after a couple years.

This would allow our beloved suppliers to continue to fund their enterprise, help us all exercise Patience, and leave the entire Bonsai community able to enjoy more and better trees.

It makes me sick that all we here is "have more patience have more patience", yet rarely if ever practice it fully.

Sorce

Sorce, you have no credibility supporting your suggestions that you “know better” than a bonsai PROFESSIONAL.

Nonsense, rascal! You are not offering anything even remotely helpful to this thread, which is about diagnosing an issue on someone’s tree. It is NOT a thread about (baselessly) criticizing someone’s business model.

It would be great if you could stop steering it off course with your meritless posts.

 

[sorce]

Sorce, you have no credibility supporting your suggestions that you “know better” than a bonsai PROFESSIONAL.

Nonsense, rascal! You are not offering anything even remotely helpful to this thread, which is about diagnosing an issue on someone’s tree. It is NOT a thread about (baselessly) criticizing someone’s business model.

It would be great if you could stop steering it off course with your meritless posts.

Everything I've offered is completely opposite of this quoted.

Perhaps it's based on what some people may not know about themselves, as far as being reactive or proactive, but it matters.

There is absolutely nothing we can surely derive from this situation where an old Earth tree suddenly gets bombarded with Nazi chemicals.

So the only reasonable discussion is that of preventing it in the future.

So go ahead and run a dude with a sword around in circles.

That's some Bullshit I can't get involved in.

Are people so sexualized that they can't tell when they been fucked?

I don't believe OP is.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

I simple look at what's happening and will continue happening will prove I know better.

"Professional", "expert", they killed those terms.

"Wise", "thoughtful", "humble" the men the Shogun followed.

Sorce