Discussion of rules for 2023 ROR contest

[James W.]

My ideas:
1) To start immediately and end in 6, 7 or 8 years (depending on beginning material) No closing date for accepting entries.
2) Limited to a specific starter material
a) Trident maple from seed.
b) Trident maple from seedling (like here)
c) Crabapple from seed (or seedlings?)
d) Chinese elm from seed
e) Chinese elm from seedling
f) Juniper cuttings
g) JBP seedlings
or
h) ???
3) 'Rock' can be anything as long as the roots are displayed growing over, around and/or through it.
4) Entries limited to one per person with up to 10 initial starts. Re-entry with new stock would be allowed in the case of total or catastrophic failure.
5) Photographs of all entries required every six months, once from sometime in January - June and once from July - December. Updates due by July 31 and January 31 each year.
6) Entrant would be responsible for selecting their best for a final submission. I would expect the final submission to be in a showable condition, but that choice is up to the entrant (i.e. the entry is not automatically disqualified if it is in a training box). Final submission to consist of four photographs, quality of photos might be a factor. Photos of final submission could be taken any time within the year preceding final submission. At least one final image should include a standard sized can of soda or beer to establish scale (could be a 5th image). Final judging by counting 'likes' of the final images, open to any member, over a two week period. (Yes, a popularity contest)
7) Prize to consist of one or more nice ROR and a bottle of your favorite beverage. (Prizes to be supplied by winner)

Open for discussion! especially starter material. I would like to see a common starting point that people anywhere would be able to access.

I think that a week should be enough discussion, we will finalize rules by 4/2/23 (Feb. 4, 2023)

 

[leatherback]

Entries limited to one per person

Why do you want to limit that people can only submit one entry?

2) Limited to a specific starter material

I am not sure I would specify the species. Wether or not to use seed/seedlings is also an open question to me.

 

[ShadyStump]

A single final entry seems reasonable for a contest. It forces participants to consider the quality of the material and it's development versus just starting a bunch and letting others tell them what's good.
The idea is to push participants to challenge themselves and be discerning about doing so, after all.

I do understand starting from similar material as a matter of fairness, but geography or personal circumstances may create limitations which would automatically disqualify some people.

 

[James W.]

Think of it in terms of a scientific(ish) experiment. I would like to limit the variables as much as is possible to peoples' cultural practices, techniques and climate. That way if someone is following our progress they don't have to take into consideration "that works for this species but other techniques are better for this one? but his didn't work, so . . .???" Ideally I would pick a supplier and have anyone who wants to enter buy the "contest kit" from them.
On the other hand I want to make the contest accessible to as many people as possible. What common starting point would be most universally available?
I guess we could just throw it open to anything that hasn't been tied to a rock yet. That would be fun, too.

 

[Underdog]

or one just tied to a rock last year? LOL I know, I know... but it was my best rock.
I was scouting my stuff today looking for another victim...
My only constructive input is keep it simple and fun. I'll probably play whatever you decide.

 

[Kievnstavick]

I like the idea of "multiple starts but one final entry." I am not sure how it usually goes here, but I think the expectation would be that the number of dwindle over the years to two or three to select their final submission.

I do think limiting the starter material somewhat is necessary for this sort of thor at least have a clear outline of what is being "judge" by popularity. I can imagine a fantastR styling could take the cake, where as the emphasis should be on the ROR (or else why not just have a genic contest)

A variety, but limited selection of species and a limit on age of material might be an idea to go with. Try to get a few for each geographical area or what not.

 

[Underdog]

I'm not a fan of the "from seed" or even seedling bit tho...
I'm getting old ya know. I'd like to use something I already have or at least a nursery tree which I swore off of buying anymore of. I have some small rooted cuttings ect. I could use if it has to start as a baby. But why?
This is the thread for discussing and kicking around ideas. I don't mean to sound negative if I am.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I just started a ROR ficus seedling last weekend.
It’s my first attempt.

 

[Lorax7]

I have plans to do both a bougainvillea and a ficus root-over-rock/statue. I’m against limiting the species for the contest. The techniques involved in making ROR are independent of the particular species in the planting, so why limit it by species?

 

[misfit11]

I'm not a fan of the "from seed" or even seedling bit tho...
I'm getting old ya know. I'd like to use something I already have or at least a nursery tree which I swore off of buying anymore of. I have some small rooted cuttings ect. I could use if it has to start as a baby. But why?
This is the thread for discussing and kicking around ideas. I don't mean to sound negative if I am.

ROR is typically started with a seedling. You start them very young when the roots are small and malleable. If you try to do it with older, more established material, the roots don't cling to the rock in a convincing way.

 

[ShadyStump]

Think of it in terms of a scientific(ish) experiment. I would like to limit the variables as much as is possible to peoples' cultural practices, techniques and climate. That way if someone is following our progress they don't have to take into consideration "that works for this species but other techniques are better for this one? but his didn't work, so . . .???" Ideally I would pick a supplier and have anyone who wants to enter buy the "contest kit" from them.
On the other hand I want to make the contest accessible to as many people as possible. What common starting point would be most universally available?
I guess we could just throw it open to anything that hasn't been tied to a rock yet. That would be fun, too.

I understand this, but I am of the opinion that fun and personal challenge is the primary purpose of these.
We could split the difference and break judging into different divisions. I.e. a juniper division, a JM division, an "anything goes" division, a "from seed" division, etc. Down side there is it can become allot to keep organized. I'm fine with putting most of that on the contestants. One thread for whatever they start, then division threads where they post their final entries, a long with a link to their original progress thread.

 

[Gabler]

I would limit it by genus, not species. E.g. have a maple contest, not a trident maple contest. Let those nearer to the poles pick more cold-hardy species, and let those closer to the equator pick more heat-tolerant species.

 

[ShadyStump]

I would limit it by genus, not species. E.g. have a maple contest, not a trident maple contest. Let those nearer to the poles pick more cold-hardy species, and let those closer to the equator pick more heat-tolerant species.

That would simplify things allot over my suggestion.
Still, it does put a limit on who can participate. Apparently that's a thing for me.

 

[leatherback]

I personally am a fan of open in species. And perhaps from young (Up to ~ a pencil) or mature material.

TO me, these contests are never about winning but about getting people to try something they have not done, about learning from what others are doing and to be inspired by.

If we are going to hand our Yamadori Tours to the rocky mountains that might change. But so far, most of these competitions are limited to small recognition awards.

 

[Woocash]

I personally am a fan of open in species. And perhaps from young (Up to ~ a pencil) or mature material.

TO me, these contests are never about winning but about getting people to try something they have not done, about learning from what others are doing and to be inspired by.

If we are going to hand our Yamadori Tours to the rocky mountains that might change. But so far, most of these competitions are limited to small recognition awards

I think sometimes its good to be constrained a little though, especially in contest situations, as it takes more of a forward thinking eye. What sort of rock would suit X genus the most, what style of tree, what composition etc. Forcing a beginner or less experienced person, such as myself, to narrow down those selective options can make for more of a learning experience than throwing mud a wall to see what sticks.

I don’t think that a specific species would be right necessarily either. I like @Gabler ‘s suggestion of a genus instead. For example, most places in the world have Acer, Malus and Prunus native or imported pretty readily and they’re also reasonably quick to develop (though not necessarily to flower).

 

[Kanorin]

If it’s just Acer root over rock, I’ll probably do one , but if it’s more open to more genera or species, I would be pretty excited to try out a few things that I’ve never seen before.
Serviceberry, persimmon, beech, prunus RoR? Yes please.

If this was a contest with a $1000 prize, we’d need to be pretty narrow in making sure everyone is beginning with the same starting material. In our case, I think we can give people a bit more freedom…mainly that they are not starting with an existing root over rock.

 

[mj_barb]

Was planning on starting a few, so I will join as long as my JBP seedlings from last year have usable roots.

Also starting JM and Amur ROR, so I will enter if those are added.

Guess I need to hunt some more rocks.

 

[ChefB]

Root over rock bald cypress. GO!

 

[Kievnstavick]

For me, having some limitations on things adds to the puzzle of the event rather then it just being a collection of trees everyone started at the same time.

The way I see limiting people on certain things also adds to the learning experience for everyone involved as well. Seeing how different people deal with "like" material would be interesting as a participant.

I like the idea of having a genus or two to select from. I would like it to be a selection where anyone can participate, but limited enough that we all have "like" problems.

 

[Kievnstavick]

TO me, these contests are never about winning but about getting people to try something they have not done, about learning from what others are doing and to be inspired by.

I wanted to add to the consensus that I also view these types of contests this way. I also view these are a way to challenge myself.