Development/pre-bonsai/growth stage questions from a newbie

[Laddo]

Im pretty new to the art of bonsai, but I am an arborist by trade so i have good knowledge on tree biology in general. Although, bonsai seems to turn a lot of the rules of arboriculture on their head! I bought a few juniper procumbens 'nana' and a shimpaku juniper that i am in the process of developing. They are a mix of 'pre-bonsai' (purchased from a bonsai nursery) and regular nursery stock. Most of them are in smaller bonsai training pots and 2 are in a 5-gallon container. My immediate goal is to thicken the trunks and achieve better taper.

• During this part of the process is it advisable to perform any pruning? Or should i just let them do their thing for a few years mostly untouched?
• Should i move them all into larger containers or plant them in the ground?
• Should i be doing any wiring or bending at this point?
• Any other pointers that I'm missing would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Esolin]

If you want thick trunks in the shortest amount of time, yes, you'll probably want them all in very large pots or in the ground. Feed them a lot and let them grow mostly wild. The more branches a juniper has/needs to support, the thicker the trunks will get to move all those nutrients. There are lots of helpful videos online to better educate yourself with. Here are a few to start which pertain to growing/training pre-bonsai.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

The more growth you allow the thicker the trunk will be but you may consider some wiring or similar to suggest the struggle often sought in wild collected junipers rather than pole straight trunks

 

[Lorax7]

Im pretty new to the art of bonsai, but I am an arborist by trade so i have good knowledge on tree biology in general. Although, bonsai seems to turn a lot of the rules of arboriculture on their head! I bought a few juniper procumbens 'nana' and a shimpaku juniper that i am in the process of developing. They are a mix of 'pre-bonsai' (purchased from a bonsai nursery) and regular nursery stock. Most of them are in smaller bonsai training pots and 2 are in a 5-gallon container. My immediate goal is to thicken the trunks and achieve better taper.

• During this part of the process is it advisable to perform any pruning? Or should i just let them do their thing for a few years mostly untouched?
• Should i move them all into larger containers or plant them in the ground?
• Should i be doing any wiring or bending at this point?
• Any other pointers that I'm missing would be greatly appreciated.

Should you prune them? Yes, but with a specific purpose in mind. For example, perform branch selection to ensure that you don’t have more than two branches coming off of a node. Otherwise, if left to its own devices a tree will get inverse taper. Pruning may also be necessary to allow light to penetrate the canopy to maintain the vigor of internal branches, especially if you’re creating shohin. But, in general, you want to leave as much foliage on the tree as possible to promote trunk thickening.

Should you move them into larger containers or plant in the ground? It depends. Planting in a larger container can promote growth, but you don’t want to go too big too quickly as having parts of the soil that remain too wet (because there aren’t any roots there yet) can be bad for the health of the tree. So, up-pot in stages if you’re going to keep the tree in a container. Growing in the ground can accelerate growth, but it makes it inconvenient to work the tree. For example, wiring a tree that’s being grown in the ground is not a great idea because it’s very easy for the tree to grow so much that the wire becomes permanently embedded before you notice and have a chance to remove it. A hybrid approach of doing some ground growing but periodically digging up the tree to do root work and perhaps growing in a container for a while to wire, create shari and jin, etc. seems to have advantages vs. a plant it in the ground and forget it approach.

Should you be wiring and bending? I’m in favor of doing so. Now is not the right season though. Wait until fall to wire/bend junipers. However, if you’re planting them in the ground then, no, don’t wire them. You could still do some bends though.

Pointer: starting small shari early on in development and gradually adding a little more to the shari region year after year is a way to add depth and interest to the shari.

 

[Laddo]

Should you prune them? Yes, but with a specific purpose in mind. For example, perform branch selection to ensure that you don’t have more than two branches coming off of a node. Otherwise, if left to its own devices a tree will get inverse taper. Pruning may also be necessary to allow light to penetrate the canopy to maintain the vigor of internal branches, especially if you’re creating shohin. But, in general, you want to leave as much foliage on the tree as possible to promote trunk thickening.

Should you move them into larger containers or plant in the ground? It depends. Planting in a larger container can promote growth, but you don’t want to go too big too quickly as having parts of the soil that remain too wet (because there aren’t any roots there yet) can be bad for the health of the tree. So, up-pot in stages if you’re going to keep the tree in a container. Growing in the ground can accelerate growth, but it makes it inconvenient to work the tree. For example, wiring a tree that’s being grown in the ground is not a great idea because it’s very easy for the tree to grow so much that the wire becomes permanently embedded before you notice and have a chance to remove it. A hybrid approach of doing some ground growing but periodically digging up the tree to do root work and perhaps growing in a container for a while to wire, create shari and jin, etc. seems to have advantages vs. a plant it in the ground and forget it approach.

Should you be wiring and bending? I’m in favor of doing so. Now is not the right season though. Wait until fall to wire/bend junipers. However, if you’re planting them in the ground then, no, don’t wire them. You could still do some bends though.

Pointer: starting small shari early on in development and gradually adding a little more to the shari region year after year is a way to add depth and interest to the shari.

helluva response. Thanks!

 

[pandacular]

re: what @Lorax7 said about growing in the ground--my teacher has recommended this same method if the goal is growth, particularly trunk thickening, but as a way to work around some of the issues that were rightfully pointed out, she uses grow bags to aid in planting and removing the tree without doing harm to it.

I'm doing this with a few of my trees and can say that the growth has been quite fast. Lorax is right too that this increases the risk of wire bite, especially on smaller branches, but that's something that can be avoided by carefully checking the tree regularly. My junipers have responded very dramatically to wire bite, and then recover quite quickly when I catch and correct it (except for my favorite piece of accidentally jin, but that's how we learn.)

Best of luck! I think if possible you should try to connect with some people locally and maybe even take some classes. With a horticultural background, you can learn quite a lot.

Speaking of that, you mentioned this

Although, bonsai seems to turn a lot of the rules of arboriculture on their head!

This is true in a manner of speaking, namely that many of the techniques are different, but the principles of the biology are the same. The goals and environment are different, and as a result so are techniques, but the background knowledge backing those things are the same. I am a fan of Ryan Neil's education style, which is very heavily focused on working from first principles and forcing students to understand the "why" of bonsai long before the "how". If you're similarly interested in that approach, you might find his stuff interesting.

 

[Shibui]

I've found that shimpaku in particular are4 very slow to get going in the ground. I get very little growth and therefore thickening in the first year or 2 but after that growth accelerates and overtakes trees in pots.
The warnings given above are all valid. Free growth will speed growth and thickening but any faults can also develop faster so fast growth won't always give the best results. Be prepared for some failures.
Shimpaku natural growth habit is long, straight sections so left untended the results can be very difficult to stye good bonsai. I now prefer to wire and bend small trees while they are still flexible enough then accelerate growth to thicken. You may also need to do more wiring and bending through the growing years to continue trunk and branch development and that's very hard to do while in the ground and while growing very fast.
For all those reasons I think I get much better results from sacrificing some speed and developing junipers in pots. Sacrifice branches can help add thickness to specific parts of developing trunks rather than thickening the entire trunk and losing valuable trunk taper by allowing long apical shoots to do all the thickening.

 

[Laddo]

re: what @Lorax7 said about growing in the ground--my teacher has recommended this same method if the goal is growth, particularly trunk thickening, but as a way to work around some of the issues that were rightfully pointed out, she uses grow bags to aid in planting and removing the tree without doing harm to it.

I'm doing this with a few of my trees and can say that the growth has been quite fast. Lorax is right too that this increases the risk of wire bite, especially on smaller branches, but that's something that can be avoided by carefully checking the tree regularly. My junipers have responded very dramatically to wire bite, and then recover quite quickly when I catch and correct it (except for my favorite piece of accidentally jin, but that's how we learn.)

Best of luck! I think if possible you should try to connect with some people locally and maybe even take some classes. With a horticultural background, you can learn quite a lot.

Speaking of that, you mentioned this

This is true in a manner of speaking, namely that many of the techniques are different, but the principles of the biology are the same. The goals and environment are different, and as a result so are techniques, but the background knowledge backing those things are the same. I am a fan of Ryan Neil's education style, which is very heavily focused on working from first principles and forcing students to understand the "why" of bonsai long before the "how". If you're similarly interested in that approach, you might find his stuff interesting.

Thanks so much for the advice. I have heard about grow bags and were curious on their effectiveness. I'll have to give them a try. I have found a couple of local groups, unfortunately they don't meet that often though.

 

[Laddo]

I've found that shimpaku in particular are4 very slow to get going in the ground. I get very little growth and therefore thickening in the first year or 2 but after that growth accelerates and overtakes trees in pots.
The warnings given above are all valid. Free growth will speed growth and thickening but any faults can also develop faster so fast growth won't always give the best results. Be prepared for some failures.
Shimpaku natural growth habit is long, straight sections so left untended the results can be very difficult to stye good bonsai. I now prefer to wire and bend small trees while they are still flexible enough then accelerate growth to thicken. You may also need to do more wiring and bending through the growing years to continue trunk and branch development and that's very hard to do while in the ground and while growing very fast.
For all those reasons I think I get much better results from sacrificing some speed and developing junipers in pots. Sacrifice branches can help add thickness to specific parts of developing trunks rather than thickening the entire trunk and losing valuable trunk taper by allowing long apical shoots to do all the thickening.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Deleted member 47471]

All the advice here is excellent. I’ll add my two cents.

1. Large black grow containers for all
2. Organic soil w/ 10-10-10 fert every six months
3. Outside 24/7
4. Sunlight all day
5. Plenty of water
6. 1/16 tsp RAW Nitrogen (NPK 20-0-0) once per month applied with water

Make drastic bends tight and secure because as the tree thickens, it will lose some of the tight formation that was accomplished from the initial bend/styling. You might also consider potting over a slab of stone or wide rock with the addition of the 1st/sacrificial branch to promote widening. Flaring/fanning roots will accomplish that. Stay in Development Phase for the next few years.