Dan Robinson's thoughts on bonsai

[Joe Dupre']

David Easterbrook's latest video is a visit to Dan Robinson's bonsai garden. Calling it a garden seems to be a huge understatement! Maybe a shrine?? I picked up quite a few tidbits of info. Dan uses a pretty simple mix of lava, pumice and fir bark in equal parts. I've never heard him mention akadama. He may have, but I've seen several of his videos and don't remember the subject coming up. He's not big on frequent repotting or repotting at all. I'm looking into that concept. My big takeaway was his use of Miracle Gro. He feels trees benefit the most from adequate nitrogen. I know I've had very good success with Miracle Gro for the past 8 years. I tend to follow Walter Pall's recommendation on intense fertilization.

 

[JudyB]

If you ever get out that way, you have to plan a day at Elandan. It will change you... And if Dan is there, it's such an enlightening experience, he is happy to spread his knowledge. There are several threads on Bnut about Dan and Elandan. Also the book by Will Hiltz is very good. Will was a member here for long years.
@grouper52

 

[BobbyLane]

Ive had great results with miracle gro too and feeding daily. I dont think Walter uses that aggressive approach anymore btw, he mentioned it somewhere.
Ill check this video out later. Grouper also had some cool trees.

 

[Dav4]

Ive had great results with miracle gro too and feeding daily. I dont think Walter uses that aggressive approach anymore btw, he mentioned it somewhere.
Ill check this video out later. Grouper also had some cool trees.

Yeah, I believe Walter had been using 2-3 times the labeled dose of feed and found over time it was actually counter-productive for his conifers... at least that's what I remember. Fwiw, I'll give a shot of miracle gro early in the growing season and maybe again once or twice more during the summer and early fall but my main regimen for most of my trees is still solid and liquid organic (applied weekly).

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

David Easterbrook's latest video is a visit to Dan Robinson's bonsai garden. Calling it a garden seems to be a huge understatement! Maybe a shrine?? I picked up quite a few tidbits of info. Dan uses a pretty simple mix of lava, pumice and fir bark in equal parts. I've never heard him mention akadama. He may have, but I've seen several of his videos and don't remember the subject coming up. He's not big on frequent repotting or repotting at all. I'm looking into that concept. My big takeaway was his use of Miracle Gro. He feels trees benefit the most from adequate nitrogen. I know I've had very good success with Miracle Gro for the past 8 years. I tend to follow Walter Pall's recommendation on intense fertilization.

IMO what you use is not as important as the dosages and consistency. Heavy fert. for trees in development and low fert. for trees in refinement.

I prefer organics for my conifers and decidious in refinement, but I have used full strength Miracle Grow weekly for my decidious in development for the past 6-7 years!

 

[BobbyLane]

Yeah, I believe Walter had been using 2-3 times the labeled dose of feed and found over time it was actually counter-productive for his conifers... at least that's what I remember. Fwiw, I'll give a shot of miracle gro early in the growing season and maybe again once or twice more during the summer and early fall but my main regimen for most of my trees is still solid and liquid organic (applied weekly).

I use pellets too. my regime is little but often, ill just use heavily diluted doses of miracle gro n tomatoe feed daily. so id use a houseplant dose in a 5.5 litre water can or a capful of tomatoe feed.

Pretty sure Walter was feeding daily too, thats where I originally got it from, but I believe his doses were stronger.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Walter's regime may have changed. A few years back he was using about 4 times the recommended amount every 10 days to 2 weeks. I've been using twice the recommended amount of Miracle Gro on the 1st and the 15th of the month during the growing period. Heavy watering is important when using heavy doses, though.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I will admit that the Miracle Gro leaves a bit to be desired for the few junipers I have. They are not as deep green as I would like.

 

[BobbyLane]

Tomorite has seaweed in, I also use fish n seaweed high dilution at waterings. seaweed is great for colour.
change is good, as we become more experienced we begin to make our own rules and ways of doing things. ive seen exceptional results through feeding every day. my growing season is short so for me, its the best way to take full advantage. during heatwaves i was feeding twice every day at some points, while people were complaining that it was too hot!

 

[August]

Another thing to consider is that the more a tree is fertilized, the more susceptible it becomes to common pests like aphids and spidermites. Take that with a grain of salt; I learned it by way of hearsay. The hearsay of nursery professionals, but anecdotal nonetheless. I think, like most things in life, balance is optimal.

 

[BobbyLane]

Another thing to consider is that the more a tree is fertilized, the more susceptible it becomes to common pests like aphids and spidermites. Take that with a grain of salt; I learned it by way of hearsay. The hearsay of nursery professionals, but anecdotal nonetheless. I think, like most things in life, balance is optimal.

could you elaborate on this, how do healthy, stronger trees become more susceptible to common pests?

funny enough this forum gets flooded with spidermite threads every summer, I highly doubt its anything to do with fert regimes.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I will admit that the Miracle Gro leaves a bit to be desired for the few junipers I have. They are not as deep green as I would like.

Does miracle gro have any trace elements? I'm noticing a deep green color in the 2-6 weeks after spraying them with trace element mixtures.

could you elaborate on this, how do healthy, stronger trees become more susceptible to common pests?

It's an idea that high nitrogen fertilizers help plants to grow without them producing many carbohydrates (or using them immediately for growth, instead of storing them) and that this is perfect for sucking pests. Plant suckers need low sugar contents, or osmosis will kill them. Giving the plants more calcium and lower nitrogen, would tend to result in higher brix content (a visual scale to define sugar content) and thus result in fewer pest issues. But this is highly debated. I for one, believe there is no such absolute truth because I see aphid populations explode when wild plants increase their brix content in the middle of summer. That would mean that there's a flaw in the reasoning somewhere. Maybe the difference is something more subtle; high sugar plants get just 50 aphids, whereas low sugar plants get 150. Scientist says high sugar content is better, journalists pick it up and turn it into "science has proven that high sugar content means aphid-free plants!".
It could be something like that, but I've never deep dived in those studies because there's just a couple scientists having stated those things and it's not very commonly researched as far as I know.

 

[BobbyLane]

Does miracle gro have any trace elements? I'm noticing a deep green color in the 2-6 weeks after spraying them with trace element mixtures.



It's an idea that high nitrogen fertilizers help plants to grow without them producing many carbohydrates (or using them immediately for growth, instead of storing them) and that this is perfect for sucking pests. Plant suckers need low sugar contents, or osmosis will kill them. Giving the plants more calcium and lower nitrogen, would tend to result in higher brix content (a visual scale to define sugar content) and thus result in fewer pest issues. But this is highly debated. I for one, believe there is no such absolute truth because I see aphid populations explode when wild plants increase their brix content in the middle of summer. That would mean that there's a flaw in the reasoning somewhere. Maybe the difference is something more subtle; high sugar plants get just 50 aphids, whereas low sugar plants get 150. Scientist says high sugar content is better, journalists pick it up and turn it into "science has proven that high sugar content means aphid-free plants!".
It could be something like that, but I've never deep dived in those studies because there's just a couple scientists having stated those things and it's not very commonly researched as far as I know.

Ah I see! I just try to keep things balanced out by alternating with tomatoe feed that more focuses on stronger roots with the higher potassium, phosphorus contents. I use the MG for strong top growth.

 

[cmeg1]

Superfeeding…….I find this funny.

Is it nearly 20 years ?

How are Micheal Persiano’s bonsai doing???

 

[August]

@Wires_Guy_wires thanks for saving my butt with the elaboration. Like I said, just something I've absorbed from brief conversations with folks I trust. It's never one way or the other, but god if it ain't always somewhere in between

I live in an arid climate and can't help but notice how much water I waste to meet bonsai horticultural conditions. I know folks like Pall could care less, and I won't pass judgement on bonsai professionals, but overdosing on fertilizer is another wasteful practice I'd rather not emulate. It feels good to have horticultural reasons to back that up too, e.g. pest susceptibility, burn, salt build up, etc. Rather than simply "sacrificing" a better technique to feel good about reducing waste

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Ive had great results with miracle gro too and feeding daily. I dont think Walter uses that aggressive approach anymore btw, he mentioned it somewhere.
I’ll check this video out later. Grouper also had some cool trees.

I wrote Walter a couple years back. He has changed his philosophy on fertilization. When asked about his practice of max liquid fertilizer applications to all trees weekly he wrote back with:

“I have cheged d. Fertilization. learn about your tree species and requirements and fertililize accordingly. Some want a lot some much less. It depends. With some substtqtes you can over-fertilize. So be careful.”

It depends. I followed his original method and ended up with youngish looking healthy trees with coarse branching…. Great for younger trees…. But for the older ones I spent two years recovering their ancient look.

It depends.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[BobbyLane]

Superfeeding…….I find this funny.

Is it nearly 20 years ?

How are Micheal Persiano’s bonsai doing???

haha sure, theres a reason why some folks dont use high n fert on refined trees

@Wires_Guy_wires thanks for saving my butt with the elaboration. Like I said, just something I've absorbed from brief conversations with folks I trust. It's never one way or the other, but god if it ain't always somewhere in between

I live in an arid climate and can't help but notice how much water I waste to meet bonsai horticultural conditions. I know folks like Pall could care less, and I won't pass judgement on bonsai professionals, but overdosing on fertilizer is another wasteful practice I'd rather not emulate. It feels good to have horticultural reasons to back that up too, e.g. pest susceptibility, burn, salt build up, etc. Rather than simply "sacrificing" a better technique to feel good about reducing waste

The only real way to back anything up, is with the results of your trees.

 

[BobbyLane]

I wrote Walter a couple years back. He has changed his philosophy on fertilization. When asked about his practice of max liquid fertilizer applications to all trees weekly he wrote back with:

“I have cheged d. Fertilization. learn about your tree species and requirements and fertililize accordingly. Some want a lot some much less. It depends. With some substtqtes you can over-fertilize. So be careful.”

It depends. I followed his original method and ended up with youngish looking healthy trees with coarse branching…. Great for younger trees…. But for the older ones I spent two years recovering their ancient look.

It depends.

cheers
DSD sends

sure, read your trees, they will tell you if something is too much or not enough.

 

[BobbyLane]

'Any event that occurs to the tree, as long as it doesnt kill it, is an opportunity for a design change' -Dan robinson
I like that.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Actually what Dan has said multiple times to me personally:

“Let’s make that tree more gnarly!” Said as he took out his die grinder and chips began flying!

sure, read your trees, they will tell you if something is too much or not enough.

…. First one has to really know a trees “gestalt” before one is capable of understanding each species.

Cheers
DSD sends