Creating a bonsai tree while still on a parent tree?

[JackHammer]

I have a lot of junipers, and a large red maple on my property that i would like to air layer into bonsai trees. I keep thinking that it would be advantageous to do some serious grow out and branch work on a future tree while the branch is still attached to the parent and then air layer the nearly finished project. Is this common? It seems like a simple concept but I haven't seen anyone building trees this way. I would feel much more confident doing hard tree work. Maybe it takes too long?

 

[MrFancyPlants]

It’s worth a shot. Are you going to airlayer? I have heard you don’t want to do any trimming once the airlayer is in place because you’ll inhibit root formation.. also airlayers fail some times, so could be some wasted work. One last drawback could be too much vigor for training when attached to the tree.. I lied, one more. the roots could be under developed.

I still recommend the experiment. Sounds like fun.

 

[19Mateo83]

It’s worth a try but don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Do a couple branches that way if one fails you have others and if they all strike then you have extra practice material. Win win

 

[JackHammer]

It’s worth a shot. Are you going to airlayer? I have heard you don’t want to do any trimming once the airlayer is in place because you’ll inhibit root formation.. also airlayers fail some times, so could be some wasted work. One last drawback could be too much vigor for training when attached to the tree.. I lied, one more. the roots could be under developed.

I still recommend the experiment. Sounds like fun.

Yeah, I was thinking to air layer. Good point on the trimming. I was thinking I could do both but it is probably not a good idea. Or at least I should be less aggressive.

I just have an overgrown red maple I need to trim anyway and 50 ft of juniper brambles. I can do a bunch of these and it won't cause any harm except for some wasted moss.

With the junipers, I have noticed they grow roots, even if they aren't cut like is typically required. Maybe that is a way to get the process started air layering while still making some big cuts and bends in the trunk. I will give it a shot and see. Worst case, I just to-do the air layer next season.

 

[sorce]

And don't be afraid to keep the layer on for as long as it takes to be supportive.

The one season thing is just something foolish we believe.

Remember to leave all the foliage when you remove it, a lot of foilage, good branch runners, just as you would when repotting.

Doing a smart air layer helps too.
Set it up so you don't have to "repot", just cut the base and set the whole thing on the bench.

Sorce

 

[19Mateo83]

it won't cause any harm except for some wasted moss.

no such thing as wasted moss, it is reusable.

 

[Adamski77]

Had similar thought when walking around my garden… year and a bit ago trimmed heavy some really old trees and obviously they want to grow new branches. Just took some pictures… though judging from them initially the internodes are super long as parent tree is kind of big. Anyway… I’ll do some trimming in the spring and see the reaction. No hopes for it… just experiment… but honestly idea might not be crazy… some of them an inch diameter after a year.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I wire branches to get cool trunk bends, then air layer them. Not a big fan of working the foliage because junipers need that to keep their sap pumpin'.
3 years is my record of keeping an air layer on a tree, but that was because it didn't root.
I had more success with placing a torniquet with a zip tie on year 1, letting it swell. Then packing moss around it in year 2. It should root way faster than with a bark-ring cut.
Works great for smaller cuttings too.
The more growth up top, the faster the swelling goes and the faster they root.

 

[Shibui]

Definitely possible to do some trunk shaping while on a parent tree but much harder to develop branches as noted by @Adamski77 above. The fast growth you'll get from trees in the ground usually makes it real hard to get short internodes and the required taper in branching.
Have a go by all means. The worst that can happen is you'll need to chop the branches and start them again after the new tree is in a pot and growth slowed somewhat.

 

[deann]

I wire branches to get cool trunk bends, then air layer them. Not a big fan of working the foliage because junipers need that to keep their sap pumpin'.
3 years is my record of keeping an air layer on a tree, but that was because it didn't root.
I had more success with placing a torniquet with a zip tie on year 1, letting it swell. Then packing moss around it in year 2. It should root way faster than with a bark-ring cut.
Works great for smaller cuttings too.
The more growth up top, the faster the swelling goes and the faster they root.

This sounds like a great idea. Does the swelling happen below the zip tie, then the roots from the same spot? Just wondering how best to place the air layer.

 

[19Mateo83]

This sounds like a great idea. Does the swelling happen below the zip tie, then the roots from the same spot? Just wondering how best to place the air layer.

Welcome to the nut house Deann!
This should get you started air layering in no time.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

This sounds like a great idea. Does the swelling happen below the zip tie, then the roots from the same spot? Just wondering how best to place the air layer.

Welcome!

To answer your question, the swelling will happen above the zip tie, and the roots from the same spot,

When I first started air layering, I remember the roots were slightly higher than I had originally anticipated

 

[deann]

Thanks guys, ive been stalking the forum for a while and it seems like a great place. I did my first air layers this season 2/4 lived through summer when separated (maples). It's killing me waiting until bud push to pull them apart and check out the roots. I have a grapefruit tree I don't love but, it has a great little section if I can separate it. As I only have one shot for this area of the tree i was going to tourniquet and ring it but the staged zip tie method over a couple of years sounds less risky. Maybe I should do a few more practice ones on branches I don't like as much first. I don't see much about citrus trees apart from one Bonsai zone Nigel has been struggling with which doesn't fill me with confidence.