Cotoneaster bonsai help! Browning

[goth_gardener]

Hello! I have begun a cotoneaster bonsai and am struggling to figure what the plant needs. I thought I had been overwatering, cut back, then soil was regularly far too dry and figured the roots had to be developed first so didn’t let it go dry for too long.. then figured maybe not enough sun so moved it to sunnier location.. the plant appears quite stressed now.. my instinct is to be patient and only water when soil is dry.. I would really appreciate some advice! As you can see the leaves look both browning and pale…
Thank you!
Leo

 

[Eckhoffw]

Hmmmm. I’m not saying it’s a goner for sure, -cotoneaster is pretty tough-
But, I may look for another to start while you leave this one alone.

What kind of soil you got in there?
Cotoneaster likes well draining soil, and like all plants, needs to be fed.

Like you said, only water when it’s drying out. Without knowing the soil type it’s hard to say how often.
They also like full sun. If it was in shade, and now crispy, I wouldn’t put it in direct sun until it’s recovered. At this point I’d say part sun at most.

Another thing attributing to it state, could be the amount of work you’ve done. It’s in a bonsai pot and has lots of wire on it. Overwork will kill most plants.
Good luck!

 

[Treefer]

Hi. I am guessing this is a newly acquired nursery plant. Remember to go slow and not overwork it. It may be too late because it looks pretty crispy at this point. I think your watering issues are because of the soil. The soil looks very water retentive making it difficult to judge the moistness. Check out some of the soil threads here on BN for guidance. I would repot it now even though not the best time. I don't think it would make it any worse and might save it if the roots aren't dead. Good luck.

 

[Treefer]

And Leo, please add your location and hardiness zone to your profile. Makes for better advice.

 

[19Mateo83]

Welcome to the nut house!

 

[goth_gardener]

Not sure

Hmmmm. I’m not saying it’s a goner for sure, -cotoneaster is pretty tough-
But, I may look for another to start while you leave this one alone.

What kind of soil you got in there?
Cotoneaster likes well draining soil, and like all plants, needs to be fed.

Like you said, only water when it’s drying out. Without knowing the soil type it’s hard to say how often.
They also like full sun. If it was in shade, and now crispy, I wouldn’t put it in direct sun until it’s recovered. At this point I’d say part sun at most.

Another thing attributing to it state, could be the amount of work you’ve done. It’s in a bonsai pot and has lots of wire on it. Overwork will kill most plants.
Good luck!

Thank you! It’s general potting soil.. what do you recommend for feeding? Good idea on starting some other projects.. just did today hah. For future projects would you recommend it unwise to plant in bonsai pit and wire a new plant simultaneously? All the best!
Leo

 

[goth_gardener]

Hi. I am guessing this is a newly acquired nursery plant. Remember to go slow and not overwork it. It may be too late because it looks pretty crispy at this point. I think your watering issues are because of the soil. The soil looks very water retentive making it difficult to judge the moistness. Check out some of the soil threads here on BN for guidance. I would repot it now even though not the best time. I don't think it would make it any worse and might save it if the roots aren't dead. Good luck.

Thank you treefer. Yes, I do have a tendency to get excited with the shaping.. what in your experience is the a good rate to shape a newly acquired nursery plant? The soil is general potting soil.. would you recommend something else? Perhaps I can repot with that… I’m in west LA, so hardiness zone 9-10.
thank you so much for your guidance!
Leo

 

[sorce]

Overwatering is a myth.

Welcome to Crazy!

9 times oughta 10 a misplaced fear of overwatering leads to dead dry plants, and like incontinent pants, browning.

Sorce

 

[Adamski77]

Overwatering is a myth.

Welcome to Crazy!

9 times oughta 10 a misplaced fear of overwatering leads to dead dry plants, and like incontinent pants, browning.

Sorce

I agree... a lot of opinions not to schedule watering... but with correct mix in the pot I keep pouring water every day at 5pm... even when there is small rain/drizzle... obviously neighbors are watching me suspiciously with hose in my hand

 

[Paradox]

I agree... a lot of opinions not to schedule watering... but with correct mix in the pot I keep pouring water every day at 5pm... even when there is small rain/drizzle... obviously neighbors are watching me suspiciously with hose in my hand

I never advocate watering on a strict schedule to people new to bonsai because they need to learn how to water and the watering needs of their trees which takes time and observation.

However once you do learn, I think a schedule is OK. I've been keeping bonsai for 10 years. I know my soil mix, my trees and my climate so I do have a schedule for watering that changes with the season. I still observe my trees and adjust as necessary.

Observation and diligence pays off in bonsai. Laziness results in sick or dead trees.

 

[Esolin]

I'm also in So Cal and have lost several nursery-bought cotoneasters this very way. They just suddenly declined during the summer despite regular watering. Do I know why? No. Best guess? Being in the rose family, I think cotoneaster are prone to fungal disease, and I think keeping the soil moist plus high summer temps creates a perfect storm for fungal root rot. I too tried to reduce watering, but at this point when the root damage is done, it just kills the tree faster in the heat. You could try an anti-fungal drench, but I suspect it's too late.

After losing four trees, I've sworn off growing cotoneasters in hot climates, but maybe you'll have better luck if you can figure out what they require to thrive here. The only one I kept alive through summer was in a 5 gallon pot and it also got afternoon shade. Both of these factors probably kept the roots cooler so they didn't rot as easy. If you try again, I suggest finding ways to keep them cooler during summer, especially the pots.

 

[penumbra]

I'm also in So Cal and have lost several nursery-bought cotoneasters this very way. They just suddenly declined during the summer despite regular watering. Do I know why? No. Best guess? Being in the rose family, I think cotoneaster are prone to fungal disease, and I think keeping the soil moist plus high summer temps creates a perfect storm for fungal root rot. I too tried to reduce watering, but at this point when the root damage is done, it just kills the tree faster in the heat. You could try an anti-fungal drench, but I suspect it's too late.

After losing four trees, I've sworn off growing cotoneasters in hot climates, but maybe you'll have better luck if you can figure out what they require to thrive here. The only one I kept alive through summer was in a 5 gallon pot and it also got afternoon shade. Both of these factors probably kept the roots cooler so they didn't rot as easy. If you try again, I suggest finding ways to keep them cooler during summer, especially the pots.

Good observation. Cotoneaster don't do that well in hot locations, especially in pots, and especially in potting soil. There has never been a potting soil I have used in 60 years that I would use directly out of the bag without amendments except occasionally a cactus or orchid blend.
BTW, over watering is a real thing. Most people who have grown houseplants for some time will tell you they have killed more plants by over watering than they have by under watering. Of course those are frequently people who use a potting mix out of the bag. Conversely, some people plant in mixes that are so open that it is close to impossible to over water and they end up watering a few times a day in a climate like yours.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

It sure looks like the 3 I had til I learned the cotoneaster secret:

..Get another and try again.....

 

[Gabler]

Potting soil was responsible for most of my tree deaths starting out. For a well-aerated mix for cheap, I’ve used a mix of perlite and coconut husk chunks. It’s not as good as the classic three-part mix of pumice, lava, and Akadama. I’ve also found Kiryu soil for pines to be excellent in place of the Akadama in my climate where freezing and thawing is a daily occurrence throughout winter.

The best thing you can probably do now is put the tree in the shade and water only when the soil surface is dry. Keep the humidity above 90% and keep the soil moist but not damp.

 

[Clicio]

It looks on the verge of dying to me.
Sorry for your plant.
I live in a very hot climate, and using a draining soil and morning sun, it is possible to keep them cotoneasters alive IF you water them at least once a day during the growing season, and two or three times a day during high summer.
Good luck on your bonsai journey!

 

[Mike Corazzi]

It looks on the verge of dying to me.
Sorry for your plant.
I live in a very hot climate, and using a draining soil and morning sun, it is possible to keep them cotoneasters alive IF you water them at least once a day during the growing season, and two or three times a day during high summer.
Good luck on your bonsai journey!

Gotta agree. This is my latest and only cotoneaster. Got it from Neighbor's Tossed To The Curb bonsai nursery.
Lady asked me if I would take a cotoneaster and I said yes and she said, "It's laying out on my driveway."
Well, when I get a classic bonsai invitation from a recognized master, I jump on it.

So.... this is it now. 5 inch trunk
It is by FAR the fastest draining plant I have. I mean ....in at top, out at bottom...time elapsed: 15 seconds or so...

It likes that deeper pot, too.

 

[goth_gardener]

Gotta agree. This is my latest and only cotoneaster. Got it from Neighbor's Tossed To The Curb bonsai nursery.
Lady asked me if I would take a cotoneaster and I said yes and she said, "It's laying out on my driveway."
Well, when I get a classic bonsai invitation from a recognized master, I jump on it.

So.... this is it now. 5 inch trunk
It is by FAR the fastest draining plant I have. I mean ....in at top, out at bottom...time elapsed: 15 seconds or so...

It likes that deeper pot, too.

View attachment 439425

Wow, that is great to know, thank you! Hah.. yes.. in my foray into bonsai I was not considering the potting soil as much as I should. Perhaps I can save it, if not, then my next cotoneaster will have very porous light soil. I want to try the alkaline lava etc mix some of the other folks have suggested.
thank you!
Leo

 

[Firstflush]

The soil looks like it could for “in ground use” not potting soil. I see no perlite or pumice just mostly chunky wood.
If that is what was used that would be the death of the tree.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

This was mine on the day I got it 2 years ago.

 

[nuttiest]

Mike - A bonsai nursery throwing out something like that.... I wouldn't be able to stop shopping there!