Community tree survey

[Desert O'Piñon]

My issue is that most of the traditional bonsai species can't be grown in my zone... I would love to get a nice Pinyon Pine (Pinus edulis)... So hard to dig however... and Alligator Juniper (Juniperus deppeana)

I second this. Desert species in general, but specifically Piñon, Alligator Juniper, Desert Willow (Chilopsis linearis boasts beautiful flowers from late spring until frost; popular with hummingbirds), Bigtooth Maple (Acer grandidentatum is hard to find in any nurseries), Desert Ironwood (Olneya tesota also sports beautiful blossoms), One-seed Juniper (Juniperus monosperma), and Mexican Elderberry (Sambucus mexicana orSambucus cerulea has more visually subtle flowers, but great fragrance).
These are beautiful trees, but are not cultivated much for bonsai, I assume because of the difficulty of survival in climates where bonsai is more popular. But they have great characteristics for bonsai otherwise.

 

[Kievnstavick]

Forgot another:

Japanese Cherry Blossom trees. I am expirementing different species and seeds from cultivators to see what looks best as there isn't a lot of English examples of what the different flowers look like besides images of the flowers by themselves off the tree. I have about 3 species and a single "cultivar" from seed as well as 2 that I started from seed about 3 years ago. I am planning about 50 of each type per year. I wont know the results or my own preference until years down the road when they start flowering. I love the idea of a cherry blossom, but I am not much of a fan of how the Japanese often style their blossoms as a gnarly and warped tree.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Can you please clarify your statement? Based on that you said, Japanese Cherries would be extinct in North America and Europe. Based on my eyes, there are certain regions and communities where there is one in almost every yard, often very old specimen.

This reminds me of the famous Walter Pall statement: "'Deshojo' invariably is attacked by a vicious fungus. A Japanese master said that they don't grow much older than 25 years." A statement that is easily proven false by anybody with access to the internet or magazines, even in 2008.

From the cherry growers I've spoken to: ornamentally the Japanese varieties become ugly very fast when infected, and they're not as great producers as European varieties even without pseudomonas. This makes them economically interesting for the short term.
Hence the high sales in garden centers, but not much long lasting plantings.
I don't know how to distinguish Japanese cherries from European ones except for the flowering time, so I wouldn't spot the difference from across the street. But I do see a lot of rotten, and falling apart "cherry blossoms" that are on the verge of death while being less than a leg in trunk thickness. The reason I can tell these are japanese is because they flower befote any pollinators are out and about.
Local varieties don't go bad as fast.
If they can't be pollinated by bugs, there's mostly ornamental value, and if they explode when infected with pseudomonas, they lose that value fast.
This is what the cherry experts told me.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Japanese Red Pine, all species of Bristlecone Pines, all Persimmons with smaller fruits

 

[liltrees]

From the cherry growers I've spoken to: ornamentally the Japanese varieties become ugly very fast when infected, and they're not as great producers as European varieties even without pseudomonas. This makes them economically interesting for the short term.
Hence the high sales in garden centers, but not much long lasting plantings.
I don't know how to distinguish Japanese cherries from European ones except for the flowering time, so I wouldn't spot the difference from across the street. But I do see a lot of rotten, and falling apart "cherry blossoms" that are on the verge of death while being less than a leg in trunk thickness. The reason I can tell these are japanese is because they flower befote any pollinators are out and about.
Local varieties don't go bad as fast.
If they can't be pollinated by bugs, there's mostly ornamental value, and if they explode when infected with pseudomonas, they lose that value fast.
This is what the cherry experts told me.

I think a lot of it comes down to individualized care. Where I live (DC region/US), mature cherry specimen are all over the place. Literally every neighborhood. In fact, many of the cherries that were gifted by Japan in 1912 are still alive along the Tidal Basin despite constant flooding and generally poor environmental conditions. The National Park Service puts a lot of effort into protecting those specific trees. In that same era, many others were planted in the broader region that are still alive and well.

Caveat: In a container, things are different.

 

[Paradox]

Prunus mume
Chojubai
Satsuki Azalea varieties
Scots pine

 

[TomP]

Styrax and Stewartia are still hard to come by at least in my section of the US. Also Japanese White pine are very expensive for anything worthwhile

I am starting to see more Korean hornbeams and chojubai and even ume so we are moving in the right direction there I think

 

[DeepSouth]

I would echo @PaulH on twisted pomegranate (I'm working on it!!!) I would add all the many great pome varieties Evergreen Gardenworks is the only place I know of to get the great flowering types. I'm also working on making Emperor more available. Escambron (Clerodendrum aculeatum) is a favorite of mine and pretty hard to find. There are also a ton of Celtis species that are great but you really only find about 3 that are commercially available. I would also agree with @rockm on cedar elm and persimmons I would add winged elm. My issue is that most of the traditional bonsai species can't be grown in my zone... I would love to get a nice Pinyon Pine (Pinus edulis)... So hard to dig however... and Alligator Juniper (Juniperus deppeana)

If you want a winged elm, they are everywhere here and can basically be yanked out of the ground and shoved into a pot. great species to work with. I am not sure how they would do in your area, but I suspect they would be fine if you could keep them watered.

 

[Jcmmaple]

Korean hornbeam, starter material and development pre bonsai.

That are responsible priced.

Thanks

We sell Korean hornbeam that i feel is reasonable.

 

[liltrees]

We sell Korean hornbeam that i feel is reasonable.

For seedlings they seem on par with everyone else! I just ordered one of your shin deshojos

 

[stubmle]

Blue atlas cedar in a manageable size is something I'd like to see more of. All I've found in my area are either much-too-large plants for the landscape trade or have horrible grafts... or both. Supposedly the blue coloration can be passed on via seed, but not reliably.
I'd also like to see more blackthorn/sloe, Prunus spinosa. Seeds seem to be hard to find and I haven't found anyone selling rooted cuttings yet. Supposedly they're naturalized in parts of New England but I haven't been able to find any growing near me yet.

I'd love to have a Glastonbury thorn, but that's like the Holy Grail at this point. They seem to be readily available in the UK but rare as hen's teeth over here. The only nursery I found that lists it doesn't seem to be selling them any more.

 

[Kievnstavick]

We sell Korean hornbeam that i feel is reasonable.

A casual look at your bonsai section nursery stock, I'd agree they are reasonably priced. $15 for a nursery gallon tree (without any apparent early bonsai specific work) is about what I'd expect for a tree that isn't rare or hard to propagate. Compared to John Ead's Korean hornbeams, he charges similar for younger stock with the added benefit of doing very early work on them to set them up for Bonsai.

Do you buy your hornbeams wholesale or do you propagate them yourselves?

 

[Jcmmaple]

A casual look at your bonsai section nursery stock, I'd agree they are reasonably priced. $15 for a nursery gallon tree (without any apparent early bonsai specific work) is about what I'd expect for a tree that isn't rare or hard to propagate. Compared to John Ead's Korean hornbeams, he charges similar for younger stock with the added benefit of doing very early work on them to set them up for Bonsai.

Do you buy your hornbeams wholesale or do you propagate them yourselves?

For now wholesale, but we will be growing seeds this year. We will work on the roots on the ones we have, we started in September working on the bonsai stuff. We have more to come in the future, but for now we are working hard to get the ones we have a good start.

 

[Kievnstavick]

For now wholesale, but we will be growing seeds this year. We will work on the roots on the ones we have, we started in September working on the bonsai stuff. We have more to come in the future, but for now we are working hard to get the ones we have a good start

Makes sense, especially by my initial impression that you have a nursery instead of a specialized growing operation like Eric and John have. Good luck with growing your own stock!

I don't envy the position nurserymen have in order to pay your bills and afford your lifestyle.

 

[The Barber]

Amelanchier alnifolia aka Serviceberry is another native species i would like to see more in the USA. Carmen has mentioned this species a couple of times. I am about one year in on this species from seed, but I have 2 saplings that are approximately 4 years old at this point and in training for root over rock over the last 2 years.

Serviceberry definitely seems to be a good prospect for use in bonsai so far from what I can tell. I've found a decent specimen at local landscape nurseries that I am working on that will be going into a pot this spring.

Korean hornbeam is probably my favorite deciduous but finding thick trunks aren't so easy.

Native hackberry produce amazingly small leaves and ramify easily.

Elaeagnus is another one that seems to get overlooked as well in my opinion.

 

[liltrees]

I've seen quite a few native species listed. I figured it would be worth mentioning for those of you in the states that most of your Departments of Forests or Natural Resources will have a state nursery that sells native seedlings.
For example here is Virginia: https://buyvatrees.com/
They are mostly 1 year old seedlings but are super cheap. I've placed multiple orders over the years. Scots pine, various oaks, serviceberry, dogwood, black cherry, redbud, magnolia, etc.

 

[Jcmmaple]

.

Makes sense, especially by my initial impression that you have a nursery instead of a specialized growing operation like Eric and John have. Good luck with growing your own stock!

I don't envy the position nurserymen have in order to pay your bills and afford your lifestyle.

I could not agree more, they do work hard and long hours. I’m not the owner, I started helping them with the bonsai stuff in September. I’ve known them for maybe 9-10 years, him and his wife are super people and know what they are doing. I’m just trying my best to help them out since he gave me a chance to help him, plus it helps the community for future stock. I think this year we are starting field growing and Japanese black pine cuttings, like I said we have a lot of good things coming. If you guys think of anything you need or have any questions don’t hesitate to ask, I also have a thread I started just for progress. I have been busy so haven’t posted much on it. The thread is MaplesNMore nursery.

 

[milehigh_7]

If you want a winged elm, they are everywhere here and can basically be yanked out of the ground and shoved into a pot. great species to work with. I am not sure how they would do in your area, but I suspect they would be fine if you could keep them watered.

They do great here. One of our club members has a really nice one... Sooo give me a shout, maybe we can work out a deal of some sort... Even a small one would be fun.

 

[milehigh_7]

I second this. Desert species in general, but specifically Piñon, Alligator Juniper, Desert Willow (Chilopsis linearis boasts beautiful flowers from late spring until frost; popular with hummingbirds), Bigtooth Maple (Acer grandidentatum is hard to find in any nurseries), Desert Ironwood (Olneya tesota also sports beautiful blossoms), One-seed Juniper (Juniperus monosperma), and Mexican Elderberry (Sambucus mexicana orSambucus cerulea has more visually subtle flowers, but great fragrance).
These are beautiful trees, but are not cultivated much for bonsai, I assume because of the difficulty of survival in climates where bonsai is more popular. But they have great characteristics for bonsai otherwise.

I am going to be working on making desert/hot weather species more available going forward... we have so many great ones! like 14 species of Goji berry!

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

I am going to be working on making desert/hot weather species more available going forward... we have so many great ones! like 14 species of Goji berry!

Say less. How can I help? I love so many hot, dry climate trees, and I really like the fruiting species. I don't have much unused space, but I can probably assist with a couple species if you want. I'd need guidance, of course, but put me in, Coach!