Combining root bags with colander/baskets.

[cmeg1]

Hey, did I just discover the next new thing? Naa. I was brainstorming how to make root bags more sturdier cause' I have to move them and if they are kinda" moist,they shift around a little bit and may damage some roots.I was stumped.I looked on line and found a system someone has patented that actually has a perforated basket with a root bag insert,but they were extremely too tall and probably too expensive.I do like the idea of root bags and also colander growing so I can get some air-pruning going on.I finally realized I could buy the most inexpensive root pouch and just cut it open to spread out and place in the 13" colanders I am growing a lot of my trees in.The main reason I like the idea is because I was getting worried about soil breaking down over the years and washing out of my colanders.The root pouch liner in the colander would solve that problem.I grow out trees in a potting soil with 1/3 to 1/2 dyna-rok.I think I am going to line the colanders with the cut open pouches next spring.

 

[Poink88]

I've done similar...but only use the landscaping liner with some bins or crate (milk or soda). Super cheap and works well.

The liner is black and have holes.

 

[berobinson82]

Is there an advantage over just using the colander? I thought the reason for both was to air prune roots. Curious.

 

[cmeg1]

"Is there an advantage"
The advantage for me,personally,would be more confidence that my potting soil additive will not wash out through the colander after decomposition.Also I think that I may like it in the winter to slow down water evaporation from the bottom of the colander in the long winter storage I give them without watering and to insulate a bit.I over-winter under my mobile home and they can go for a couple months without watering.I think moisture would be more consistent all the way through and not risk root-tips getting dry near holes in colander and then re-wetting them in spring and risking root rot or something.

 

[Bill S]

Hate to say it but this sounds like half a fix for using bad soil. It seems you may have a system to use because you can't do some things the rest find necessary.

Potting soil in a colender is a bit counter productive to start with, the dense soil doesn't let the air to the roots like the typical "bonsai soil" will which is the main feature of using the colender, along with optimal drainage. For me adding a bag or landscape cloth makes it worse. DOesn't seem adding a root bag to a colender gets you much aside from being a good customer at the supply house.

 

[Poink88]

Bill S,

For me, the landscaping cloth is necessary if I want to use the bins/crates. The hole openings (@ walls and bottom) are about 2" x 2".

I also use a different mix for my plants in training than your typical bonsai soil. Being in TX, I use more fines and organics than most. I may change the mix as I move them to proper bonsai pots.

 

[Adair M]

I think adding anything to prevent the fines from washing out would also defeat the purpose of using colanders.

Is the problem you're worried about the akadama breaking down, then washing out of the colanders? Then don't use akadama. You don't need akadama. Lava and pumice will do just fine. They won't break down.

The whole purpose of using colanders is to increase air to the roots. And, it allows you to water without having to worry about 'overwatering' and causing root rot because there's no place for water to stand. This also allows you increase the organic fertilizer since it's carried by the water, and since you're having to water so much, you won't be overfertilizing because the water will wash the excess fertilizer away. Inorganic fertilizer can be used, too. The problem with inorganic fertilizer is the salt build up. Since there's no "bottom of the pot", the fertilizer salt won't build up.

Installing any kind of barrier defeats the advantages of using the colander. You might as well be using plastic nursery pots!

 

[Poink88]

Installing any kind of barrier defeats the advantages of using the colander. You might as well be using plastic nursery pots!

Sorry but I disagree. It may have less opening but still not the same as solid wall and a bottom with only a few opening. It is not white but not black either....it is middle gray and sometimes gray is a better compromise.

 

[berobinson82]

I think that I may like it in the winter to slow down water evaporation from the bottom of the colander

Water evaporates up.

I don't agree that this is the same as using black nursery pots, but I'd love to see a side by side comparison of using a mesh in a colander and using just the colander. I get that a more rigid structure is good for less root disturbance. Just can't imagine the netting being required unless your colander has some giant holes... which they don't.

 

[Poink88]

Water evaporates up.

It may eventually "float up" but evaporation actually can go any direction. Normally it can only go up because most of the time, exposed water surface is only on the top of it's container (no way but up).

 

[berobinson82]

It may eventually "float up" but evaporation actually can go any direction. Normally it can only go up because most of the time, exposed water surface is only on the top of it's container (no way but up).

Evaporation happens from the surface. Water evaporates up. This is science. This is not a "JMHO" opportunity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporation

Downward evaporation is called drainage in this instance is it not? I understand you get bored and like to argue. I'm out.

 

[Poink88]

Evaporation happens from the surface. Water evaporates up. This is science. This is not a "JMHO" opportunity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporation

Downward evaporation is called drainage in this instance is it not? I understand you get bored and like to argue. I'm out.

Bold is your answer. Surface in this case is at the sides, bottom and top (in short, all around).

Drainage is another story and it is NOT evaporation.

 

[Bill S]

Sorry but I disagree. It may have less opening but still not the same as solid wall and a bottom with only a few opening. It is not white but not black either....it is middle gray and sometimes gray is a better compromise.

Do you just make this stuff up as you go, you seem to want to counter anything that has been established as a better way.

The only thing you get out of adding a root bag or landscapers cloth to a colender is less flow of anything. Grey at the bottom of a pot is meaningless. Root bags are meant and designed to be used solo, you gonna tell me you know better than the mfg. .

2"x2" grid is one hell of a colender, my speggetti will all fall out, flats on the other hand are a different story, and do not equate to collenders, even when raised off the table/ground.

 

[Poink88]

Do you just make this stuff up as you go, you seem to want to counter anything that has been established as a better way.

The only thing you get out of adding a root bag or landscapers cloth to a colender is less flow of anything. Grey at the bottom of a pot is meaningless. Root bags are meant and designed to be used solo, you gonna tell me you know better than the mfg. .

2"x2" grid is one hell of a colender, my speggetti will all fall out, flats on the other hand are a different story, and do not equate to collenders, even when raised off the table/ground.

LOL If you've read my posts (and I suggest you do before replying to it), I am not using colanders...rather milk and soda crate...thus the 2" x 2" openings.

 

[Stan Kengai]

Hate to say it but this sounds like half a fix for using bad soil. It seems you may have a system to use because you can't do some things the rest find necessary.

Potting soil in a colender is a bit counter productive to start with, the dense soil doesn't let the air to the roots like the typical "bonsai soil" will which is the main feature of using the colender, along with optimal drainage. For me adding a bag or landscape cloth makes it worse. DOesn't seem adding a root bag to a colender gets you much aside from being a good customer at the supply house.

I have to agree 100% will Bill. The entire point of colanders is to increase drainage and air in the substrate, and you're defeating that by using potting soil.

I understand that it's pretty scary making the jump from potting soil to inorganic, but it's actually much easier to water when you do (particularly for plants in development). The only time you have to worry about over-watering is when a plant is first transplanted or if it has significant organic soil remaining in the rootball. Even down here in the South, I rarely have to water plants in colanders with totally inorganic soil (pumice, lava, turface) more than once a day. Come on and take that leap. You're plants will thank you with tremendous growth, and you won't be constantly checking to see if it's time to water.

 

[cmeg1]

well,I still like the idea.It is basically a root bag with stability.Potting soil has been the mainstay in the nursery trade and in root bags.The nursery where I get my stock uses a potting soil.The trees below where grown cuttings and seedlings in a form of potting soil.Bonsai soil would dry out to often for me in winter with my method of protection.I mean ,it is serving the purpose and I like it.Yes there is better,but for me this works.Outside of colander growing,In a deeper bonsai pot,I will screen the potting soil and mix it with dyna-rok,can,t use potting soil straight in a bonsai pot.But in a colander it works,complete aeration and transfer of gasses as far as I can see.I'm outta here.

 

[cmeg1]

Hey,Poink.You need to clear your incoming private messages cause it is full.

 

[Adair M]

Just because a commercial nursery will use organics in bonsai soil does not mean that organics SHOULD be in the soil.

I cite as a prime example, Brussel's Bonsai. They use absolutely horrible soil. If you get a tree sourced from Brussel's, repot at the earliest practical opportunity. Their goal for the tree is to keep it alive until it can be sold. The pine bark they use doesn't start to break down for about 2 years, which is how long they need to quarantine the trees they import. About that time, it turns septic.

Are you familiar with Anderson Flats? They are solid sided plastic trays, but the bottom is reinforced mesh, about the same size holes as colanders (and the mesh we use to cover the holes in the bottom of bonsai pots). You could try them. They are sturdier than colanders, yet still promote excellent drainage.

 

[Bill S]

LOL If you've read my posts (and I suggest you do before replying to it), I am not using colanders...rather milk and soda crate...thus the 2" x 2" openings.

WHy don't you go back and read my first post, and your reply, you chime in as your mess as equivalent to a colender, it's not, you interjected with junk You don't have to reply to every post on the forum, as a matter of fact, many here aren't expert enough to do that, realize that and don't. To post just to post makes a nice post count, but doesn't help the OP much.

 

[Poink88]

WHy don't you go back and read my first post, and your reply, you chime in as your mess as equivalent to a colender, it's not, you interjected with junk You don't have to reply to every post on the forum, as a matter of fact, many here aren't expert enough to do that, realize that and don't. To post just to post makes a nice post count, but doesn't help the OP much.

If you say so LOL ... read this again, I thought it was very clear. Nowhere did I claim it is equivalent to colander. But it works for me. Use your colander, no one is telling you not to.

Bill S,

For me, the landscaping cloth is necessary if I want to use the bins/crates. The hole openings (@ walls and bottom) are about 2" x 2".

I also use a different mix for my plants in training than your typical bonsai soil. Being in TX, I use more fines and organics than most. I may change the mix as I move them to proper bonsai pots.