Colorado Blue Spruce seedling. Taper issues?

[Defect]

Hello,

I have a few colorado blue spruce seedlings and I am wondering if I should be taking off the weaker branches on the trunk to avoid any kind of whorl later on or should I just let these little guys go and worry about it later?

Thanks

 

[Attila Soos]

What size of bonsai are you planning to create with this (Mame 6", Shohin 8", Chuhin 18", or larger)?
Also, depending on the size, how many years do you estimate that it will take to finish?

When starting a bonsai, these are the first questions that you need to consider, before you decide on what to do with the tree.

 

[Defect]

I would really like them to be around 18 inches or so in the end. Maybe make one a Shohin.

These will be going in the ground next spring and I am assuming about 5 year before initial styling happens. Might have to be longer as I have heard these grow very slowly.

 

[Attila Soos]

For something around 18 inches, you will need a lower trunk diameter of at least 3 inches (for bunjin style), or much thicker for the other styles.
For a spruce, that will probably take at least 30 years. I don't think that you would need to do any styling for the first 20 years, other than to keep a lot of short branches throughout the lenghth of the tree (from bottom, all the way to the top).

For a shohin, the time frame is much shorter, maybe 20 years, and don't have to worry about styling for the first 15.

At the moment, for both sizes, your goal is to thicken the trunk, while stimulating the growth of new branches very low, close to the soil line. You have a few low branches, so you need to hang on to those at all cost, since one of them will be the future leader.
The rest of the tree is just a large sacrifice branch, so it doesn't matter how it looks. It will be cut off at some point.

Building spruce bonsai from seedlings requires very advanced knowledge of every aspect of conifer bonsai. For a beginner, there is almost zero chance of success. As far as I am concerned, it is probably the hardest thing to achieve in this hobby. So far, in 20 years, I've never seen it done by anybody that I know (and I know a lot of bonsaists). The spruce bonsai I've seen so far, were all collected specimens, 60+ years old. I have a few myself (here is SoCal is a true rarity), I've been growing them for over 12 years in the ground, and except one that was collected in Vancouver, they are nowhere near anything that resembles bonsai.

This is not to discourage you, but to give some perspective from my experience.

 

[Defect]

Well thank you for your knowledge I really appreciate it. Looks like I have a long road ahead of me....which is perfectly fine. In the ground they go next year.

Hopefully by the time these guys need some work done to them I will have learned a few more things

 

[Defect]

Quick question for you Attila Soos, I was curious to how well these blue spruce are doing down in your area? I was looking at the hardiness zones for this tree and they are 2-7 and I am at about 8.
I would imagine its a little hotter down there in the winter and was kind of concerned about my zone but if your trees are doing well then I hope mine will too.

Do you do anything special for your trees besides water and fertilize?

 

[Attila Soos]

Quick question for you Attila Soos, I was curious to how well these blue spruce are doing down in your area? I was looking at the hardiness zones for this tree and they are 2-7 and I am at about 8.
I would imagine its a little hotter down there in the winter and was kind of concerned about my zone but if your trees are doing well then I hope mine will too.

Do you do anything special for your trees besides water and fertilize?

I have a few Sitka spruce, Chihuahua spruce, Quinghai spruce, Dwarf Alberta spruce, and a few others (P. koyamai, P. retroflexa). These are the only ones that can survive the So. California climate. The Sitkas are actually doing great. One of them is a little collected tree that I've been growing for 15 years here in L.A. I don't have colorado blue spruce, that wouldn't survive down here. To me, these are not serious bonsai subjects, rather just toys to satisfy my curiosity towards the species. I don't expect them to become show-worthy bonsai, ever. For that, you need collected specimens.

I used shade cloth the last few years, but this year I decided to take it off, since I have a large oak tree that provides afternoon shade. The bigger problem is the mild winter, these trees need the winter chill, a certain number of cold days, in order to survive.

I think your climate may be still ok for the blue spruce, not ideal, but borderline. As long as you don't expose them to the scorching heat (needs afternoon protection), they may have a chance. Spruce needs a lot of sun though, so it can't be too much shade. California has a lot of micro-climates, so you have to experiment in your particular area.

The problem with trying to grow trees out of their ideal zone, is that even if they survive, they don't give you too much room for mistakes. They give up easily, when they are abused. That makes this a risky affair: you can invest many years working on them, and then you make a mistake and they die. This is what happened with my redwoods, down here. I spent a lot of money on them, and then lost them. But after a few failures, I think I finally learned how to grow the coast redwood in L.A.

 

[Defect]

Thanks again for your shared knowledge. Talk to you again in 20 or so years from now. Wish me luck!

 

[Attila Soos]

Well, bonsai is not always just about show trees and such. The journey and the learning is priceless, no matter what waits us at the end of the path. Every little tree, even a leaf, can teach us something.