Collecting scots pine - cut branches before or after digging up?

[Ply]

I plan on collecting some 'wild' scots pine. I've got my eye on a 4-5 year old sapling (no picture unfortunately). It grew relatively compact, still plenty of low branches, lots of healthy foliage. Trunk is about 3cm-ish. No great '10cm-trunk-japanese-mountain-yamadori', but then again I don't live in the japanese mountains, so this will have to do. Anything older and with a thicker trunk has generally grown very tall with no lower branches.

Plan on diggin it up in early spring and repotting it in a big pot with garden soil mixed with the 'wild' soil it's in currently. In time gradually cutting of all of the higher branches as to not shade the lower ones, and let the leader grow straight and tall as to thicken the trunk. It's a longer term project, not turning it into anything that resembles bonsai just yet.

Watched some stuff from Ryan Neil and he argues that the first year after collecting is about regrowing roots. More foliage > more food/energy > better root regrowth. In the near future cut the higher branches as to not shade the lower ones. (Then again, I've also seen plenty japanese bonsai videos on youtube where digging up, potting, pruning, and styling are done all in one go).

So now for my question: Would it be benificial if I were to cut some of the higher growing branches now (while still in the ground), let it grow in the wild and dig it up in early spring? Spring starts in late march, so It'll have 3 full months to recover. The main thing I'd like to approach with this is that the lower branches will get a full growing season this year without being shaded by the higher branches

What do you think?

 

[R3x]

I do not think it would make some drastic change. my opinion only. What I'd offer here is that you should dig pines a bit later than deciduous material (which is when buds start to move). With pines you should wait until buds start to open a bit more - when you are sure it woke up from dormancy and started moving the sap.

 

[Colorado]

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Plan on diggin it up in early spring and repotting it in a big pot with garden soil mixed with the 'wild' soil it's in currently.

I would definitely not do this. Pines need an oxygen rich substrate, especially for recovering from collection. I can’t imagine trying to recover a pine in garden soil mixed with native soil.

I would also definitely not prune the foliage before collection. Wait for it to recover a year or two and then start working on the foliage.

My 2 cents…

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Recovery during dormancy doesn't happen, or hardly happens. So if you cut it now, it'll bleed until mid january, and will start recovering in march. About the time when you collect it and plan to.. Plant it in the worst soil possible.

I think your plan can use some reconsideration. Pumice is cheap, a good substrate.

The Japanese dig double flush pines and benefit from an easier climate. Their videos should be taken with a few grains of salt if you're not from Japan.

 

[River's Edge]

I plan on collecting some 'wild' scots pine. I've got my eye on a 4-5 year old sapling (no picture unfortunately). It grew relatively compact, still plenty of low branches, lots of healthy foliage. Trunk is about 3cm-ish. No great '10cm-trunk-japanese-mountain-yamadori', but then again I don't live in the japanese mountains, so this will have to do. Anything older and with a thicker trunk has generally grown very tall with no lower branches.

Plan on diggin it up in early spring and repotting it in a big pot with garden soil mixed with the 'wild' soil it's in currently. In time gradually cutting of all of the higher branches as to not shade the lower ones, and let the leader grow straight and tall as to thicken the trunk. It's a longer term project, not turning it into anything that resembles bonsai just yet.

Watched some stuff from Ryan Neil and he argues that the first year after collecting is about regrowing roots. More foliage > more food/energy > better root regrowth. In the near future cut the higher branches as to not shade the lower ones. (Then again, I've also seen plenty japanese bonsai videos on youtube where digging up, potting, pruning, and styling are done all in one go).

So now for my question: Would it be benificial if I were to cut some of the higher growing branches now (while still in the ground), let it grow in the wild and dig it up in early spring? Spring starts in late march, so It'll have 3 full months to recover. The main thing I'd like to approach with this is that the lower branches will get a full growing season this year without being shaded by the higher branches

What do you think?

Not beneficial, actually harmful. Trees in the wild do not need to be weakened before collection, reducing the foliage simply weakens the tree. Do not confuse deciduous with conifers. The more foliage you have to fuel the recovery the better.
The first year is for recovery from collection, not a lot of growth when repairing roots from collection.
This may take even longer. Working the tree comes after it is healthy and during the proper time of year.
It is inappropriate to collect trees dug up, potted, pruned and styled in one go is faulty!
Digging a field grown tree that is specifically grown for Bonsai and has had a ton of developmental work done to it over the first 25 years is a very different scenario from a wild sapling in native soil.

 

[Ply]

Recovery during dormancy doesn't happen, or hardly happens. So if you cut it now, it'll bleed until mid january, and will start recovering in march. About the time when you collect it and plan to.. Plant it in the worst soil possible.

I think your plan can use some reconsideration. Pumice is cheap, a good substrate.

The Japanese dig double flush pines and benefit from an easier climate. Their videos should be taken with a few grains of salt if you're not from Japan.

Thank you, that's good advice.

Pumice literally translates to puimsteen according to Google, but that doesn't get me very far. What's the right dutch term I should search for?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

You're dutch? Then you're lucky!
Vulcastrat is a pretty cheap soil, straight from the bag. I've been using it for a couple years now.

Vulkastrat online bestellen?

Jouw vulkastrat kopen? ✓ kies je eigen bezorgdatum ✓ gratis verzending vanaf €45,00 ✓ levering 1-2 werkdagen

www.fleurdirect.nl

 

[Ply]

Yes, I'm dutch. Thanks, I'll look into getting some!

Considering we're facing the same climate, what soil (mix) do you use in bonsai pots? Still pumice, or a mix of substrates? And do you use a soil (mix) specific for pines, or the same for all species?

My trees will be facing south and will get lots of full sun, in case that might create a slightly different soil recuirement in terms of water retention.

You're dutch? Then you're lucky!
Vulcastrat is a pretty cheap soil, straight from the bag. I've been using it for a couple years now.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'm a conifer fan. All of my trees are in vulkastrat or in the transition towards vulkastrat. It's pumice, lavarock and granite in a 1:1:1 ratio. Basically a general purpose bonsai soil, sold as hydroponic medium for office plants.

I have a couple bags of pumice from amazon that I plan on mixing into the soil, and some German pine bark fines (3mm flakes). For some reason, we only have pine bark as coarse flakes, the Germans sell it for less and they have a finer size. I use the bark for extra water retention if it's needed.

I do have to note that I love watering. So my trees are in a soil that helps me keep them healthy with the way I do things. If it gets really warm and you don't like watering, maybe add some akadama. But with our frost-thaw cycles, akadama doesn't hold up very long.