Collecting field grown Pines

[Johnathan]

Okay so I got access to a field of pines. Originally grown for Xmas trees, they are now just going to be "cleared" over the next few years. It's about 4,000 trees. Ranging from 2 - 6 years old. They are Virginia and Scots pine.

A couple buddies of mine went up and scouted and snapped these pics.






Obviosly, this is like a needle in a haystack for anything that may be decent for a bonsai future. I'm planning on going scouting in the next couple of weeks myself.

I was told that I don't necessarily have to collect this year, so I was considering pruning and trenching a couple of the larger ones.

The problem is, I'm not 100% sure I understand exactly what trenching means and how to effectively apply this practice to ensure a more successful collection in Spring of 2020.

Anyone care to give me details on this?

 

[Wilson]

Personally I would go straight to collecting scots pine. They are very tough trees, and you got a field full of em to collect! Scots are fun trees to work with. I still have the first tree I collected, and it's a beat up scots pine.

 

[Shibui]

Agree that straight to collecting will probably give good results, especially given they have been planted and tended for at least some of the time.

If you decide to trench: Spade 2 concentric circles around the trunk to dig out a 'moat'. The trench only needs to be deep enough to cut the surface roots leaving deeper roots to sustain the tree. Refill the trench with soil or sand. The cut surface roots should grow new feeder roots into the new, aerated fill so when you come to collect you should have at least some roots with plenty of feeders closer to the trunk.
Don't go too wide with the trench. Inner cut is where new feeder roots will start and that needs to eventually fit into your pot or recovery box. Closer is generally good.

With harder to collect trees some collectors do part trenching. Only dig sections of the moat so that some of the surface roots remain intact while about half are cut to start growing new feeders. Or excavate the moat carefully to see where all the roots are then cut about half before refilling. Remaining roots are then cut after another year, trench refilled and left for another season - long term collection strategy but some trees might be worth the time and effort.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

This isn’t a bad route to go...

 

[Cajunrider]

Okay so I got access to a field of pines. Originally grown for Xmas trees, they are now just going to be "cleared" over the next few years. It's about 4,000 trees. Ranging from 2 - 6 years old. They are Virginia and Scots pine.

A couple buddies of mine went up and scouted and snapped these pics.
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View attachment 226294

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Obviosly, this is like a needle in a haystack for anything that may be decent for a bonsai future. I'm planning on going scouting in the next couple of weeks myself.

I was told that I don't necessarily have to collect this year, so I was considering pruning and trenching a couple of the larger ones.

The problem is, I'm not 100% sure I understand exactly what trenching means and how to effectively apply this practice to ensure a more successful collection in Spring of 2020.

Anyone care to give me details on this?

Wow. This is one to organize a collection trip for a bonsai club(s) or better yet Bonsai Nutters!

Or you can start digging them up and sell them as pre-bonsai trees.

 

[Wilson]

Hey @Johnathan have you gone to collect any pines?

 

[Johnathan]

Hey @Johnathan have you gone to collect any pines?

I did get 1 back in March. I went with a smaller one that I could probably still bend. Herr is a quick shot of it.



We were able to keep the rootball intact so it hasn't skipped a beat. Looking nice and healthy.



I was actually just thinking about doing an airlayer on it since I didn't cut any of the foliage off. Right about herr probably



I want a bigger one now, and have been thinking about going back. But I'm not sure if our window for safe collecting has already closed for the spring.

 

[BubblePopScott]

Agree that straight to collecting will probably give good results, especially given they have been planted and tended for at least some of the time.

If you decide to trench: Spade 2 concentric circles around the trunk to dig out a 'moat'. The trench only needs to be deep enough to cut the surface roots leaving deeper roots to sustain the tree. Refill the trench with soil or sand. The cut surface roots should grow new feeder roots into the new, aerated fill so when you come to collect you should have at least some roots with plenty of feeders closer to the trunk.
Don't go too wide with the trench. Inner cut is where new feeder roots will start and that needs to eventually fit into your pot or recovery box. Closer is generally good.

With harder to collect trees some collectors do part trenching. Only dig sections of the moat so that some of the surface roots remain intact while about half are cut to start growing new feeders. Or excavate the moat carefully to see where all the roots are then cut about half before refilling. Remaining roots are then cut after another year, trench refilled and left for another season - long term collection strategy but some trees might be worth the time and effort.

Thanks for this. I have a large kowhai (NZ native) base 10inch+ I'll give this trench method a go

 

[leatherback]

But I'm not sure if our window for safe collecting has already closed for the spring.

Considering how by next year they will all become compost I would say: Go for it.

And yeah ..

This is one to organize a collection trip for a bonsai club(s) or better yet Bonsai Nutters!

or

start digging them up and sell them as pre-bonsai trees.

If this was near me, I would have taken a day to walk all the trees there, and mark the best 5-10 at least, prepared and gone to pull them. What you do not want can always be sold on.
WIth the window you have till next year, I think it is a good idea to trim some now, to create a new trunkline (So back to the first branch, stake some of them up) letting that branch grow strong this summer and next collecting season pull them up.

 

[Shibui]

Thanks for this. I have a large kowhai (NZ native) base 10inch+ I'll give this trench method a go

Kowhai root extremely easily and bud on old wood. Possibly even better than trident maples. I would be surprised if you could not dig and transplant straight to a container.
10" base! You are either young, foolish or inexperienced or maybe all of these. Large trunks require large, expensive pots and they are very heavy. You'll need a hoist or several good friends with more muscles than brains to help at repotting every year or 2 and also when you want to show this one.
Just an opinion from someone whose old back is no longer up to handling large trees

 

[BubblePopScott]

Kowhai root extremely easily and bud on old wood. Possibly even better than trident maples. I would be surprised if you could not dig and transplant straight to a container.
10" base! You are either young, foolish or inexperienced or maybe all of these. Large trunks require large, expensive pots and they are very heavy. You'll need a hoist or several good friends with more muscles than brains to help at repotting every year or 2 and also when you want to show this one.
Just an opinion from someone whose old back is no longer up to handling large trees

Yes I am all three and I'll be renting an excavator to help me hoist it out. And yes it's far too big but I have to remove the tree anyway so why not. after I air layer off 3 or 4 branches

 

[Shibui]

Yes I am all three and I'll be renting an excavator to help me hoist it out. And yes it's far too big but I have to remove the tree anyway so why not. after I air layer off 3 or 4 branches

Glass half full sort of person. Go for it! Every transplant teaches us something, even if it only that you should never do that again. Once it is in a pot someone will always want to take it off your hands if/when you discover I'm right........

 

[Johnathan]

Considering how by next year they will all become compost I would say: Go for it.

And yeah ..

or


If this was near me, I would have taken a day to walk all the trees there, and mark the best 5-10 at least, prepared and gone to pull them. What you do not want can always be sold on.
WIth the window you have till next year, I think it is a good idea to trim some now, to create a new trunkline (So back to the first branch, stake some of them up) letting that branch grow strong this summer and next collecting season pull them up.

Very good advice. my buddies actually did just that. Took a day dug around some bases and marked some. I missed that day, but went back for collecting lol

I think we are going to go again soon, this time I will trench a few and also do some cutbacks for next spring collection.

Also wouldn't be surprised if a much larger one found it's way to the back of the truck lol

 

[leatherback]

think we are going to go again soon, this time I will trench a few and also do some cutbacks for next spring collection.

so.. Where are the pictures
Did you go back?

 

[hemmy]

Obviosly, this is like a needle in a haystack for anything that may be decent for a bonsai future.

Awesome opportunity! Remember there some more ‘extreme’ techniques to create interest and movement. Large jins, shari, and thick trunk bends using the wedge-cut method. I didn’t find a thread with detailed pics of wedge cutting. But here is another interesting branch bending technique:

John Naka's Bar Branch Remedy

Hello all, I was wondering if anyone has ever used John Naka's technique for correcting bar branches. I tried to create 2 virts of what I am talking about. Basically, you take the one branch and sever the top part where the branch meets the trunk. Make the cut so that the pulled down part is...

www.bonsainut.com

Good luck!

 

[Johnathan]

so.. Where are the pictures
Did you go back?

No we never made it back out there, and then found out he went ahead and cleared all of them!