Tona
Shohin
Where can California Junipers be found that it is legal to collect them? I am in the Santa Clarita area.
Collecting California Junipers
- Thread starter Tona
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alonsou
Mame
I just know of some place somewhere in the middle of Jawbone Canyon in the Mojave Desert, still its private land and as far as I know the owner don't want any more collections to be done on his property (correct me if I'm wrong).
If you are part of a Bonsai club, ask if they have some kind of collecting trips, I think thats your best bet.
I recently was the lucky winner at the X-mas party raffle of my Bonsai Club, a beautiful CJ collected by Harry Hirao some years ago. So again, being part of a Bonsai club could be your best option.
Other than the above information I'm clueless about any other option you may have
If you are part of a Bonsai club, ask if they have some kind of collecting trips, I think thats your best bet.
I recently was the lucky winner at the X-mas party raffle of my Bonsai Club, a beautiful CJ collected by Harry Hirao some years ago. So again, being part of a Bonsai club could be your best option.
Other than the above information I'm clueless about any other option you may have
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Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
alonsou
Mame
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
FIXED LINK
Ohh boy..... I wonder how that happened...?? Thanks Ryan.
That just threw me off a bit
jk_lewis
Masterpiece
I suspect that a public forum is the last place anyone would (or should) say where a good spot was for collecting anything. Wherever it was would be quickly denuded (collected with or without permission) and so many bonsai collectors being what they are, the area would be left an unholy mess. Those who collect tend to be very closed mouthed about the best spots.
alonsou
Mame
jkl
You are right, I hope nobody disclose where is the exact spot for collecting.
There's a very select number of individuals who know the exact location of the spot, I mean, Jawbone Canyon its over 7000 acres of land (close to 11~12 square miles of terrain) good luck looking for the spot by yourself.
Just do a quick Google search, and you will find no more information than what I said before, that's how closed mouthed collectors are
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
As a collector, I would not give up locations of the best stuff. I worked hard to find them, ticks, skeeters, landowner contacts are part of the process and sweat equity of collecting. If you want good collected trees, they're not gonna fall in your lap (well, they sometimes do, but that's a very very rare thing). You gotta do the legwork or help another collector do the legwork.
maria kapra
Mame
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Finding California Junipers are getting harder and harder specially if you don't know the right people to hang out with. Alonsou, you're on the right club already as a member of Kofu Kai. Try taking lessons from him at his house and i guarantee you, he will take you to his secret place.
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discusmike
Omono
Looks like you got the last of them.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
jk_lewis
Masterpiece
I sure hope there were 7 of you on that dig, and that batch of trees weren't representing 2 or 3 very piggy collectors. In any case, it won't be long before these trees are as scarce in California as Shimpaku are in Japan today.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
See that big juniper in the picture, thats a large as a volkswagon bus or larger. See those green spots in the sat. shot, those are junipers like that in the picture. That satt shot covers about a 1/4 square mile. There are about 20,000 square miles or more of junipers there. Each square mile contains as many as 5000 junipers. Of those 5000 maybe 5 percent are collectable. This is only one ridge, this line of junipers continues on the entire east side of the range for the complete south-north run of the state.
I don't think junipers are endangered in the least out there. Maybe the collectable ones, but there are literally millions of junipers that will be there far after man has beed expelled from this planet.
Thanks though, your heart is in the right place.
jk_lewis
Masterpiece
I'm not intending to say any more after this, but I'm sure that's what they said in Japan, too; and what orchid and bromilliad collectors in Florida said 50 years ago.
And, though I won't be around to collect that bet, as a one-time ecologist I can just about guarantee that junipers are more sensitive to environmental changes than humans are. They, after all, can't walk away and don't have a technology to guarantee their survival even in worsening environmental conditions like we do.
In this I agree with JKL, as bonsai beginner, I really don't understand the applause when someone retrieves a tree from the wild and creates a marvellous bonsai. I see the beauty of those trees but on the other hand I wonder how long this practice will last... Thinking about even more movable inhabitants of earth, elephants, tigers etc. I don't want to kick to someones sheens but just thinking about the future; could it end up with garden trees?
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
This perspective will likely change as your experience with bonsai increases. I can assure you, over time, the bonsai that leave the greatest impression on you will not have come from Home Depot.
Al points out, this is a BIG world, relative to the flora. Responsible collecting can improve the quality of bonsai with really an unnoticeable effect on the environment (especially if the tree continues to live). Go collecting once and you'll immediately be awestruck with the sheer quantity of trees, and then, quickly jerked back to the reality of how few are actually collectible.
Add to this the tiny number of people who actually attempt collecting. I have noticed by the lack of bonsai super-stores on every corner, that we're a pretty small group, and even within it, I bet half of us don't collect yamadori.
When I go collecting and dig a few trees, the closest comparison to the impact on the area would be like coming home from the beach and shaking the sand out of your towel.
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
Here is where I grew up. There are about 100 people that live in this chunk of land. Every one of these trees that you see is either RMJ, Ponderosa or Pinyon all good trees for bonsai. I have access to hundreds of such chunks just in my home state.
However, I have neither the know-how or the time to collect them so I don't.
However, I have neither the know-how or the time to collect them so I don't.
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Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Where do you think garden trees came from?
Cuttings or seedlings?
Attila Soos
Omono
Let's do some math here.
If one square mile has about 5000 junipers (reasonable estimate), and we have around 20,000 square miles of juniper land, that means 100 million junipers alltogether.
Let's say that from every 100 junipers, one single seed germinates and survives, every year. This would mean that one million new junipers are added to the 100 million population, every year.
So, theoretically, we could collect, clear, log, etc. one million junipers every year, without further shrinking the population.
The question is, how many junipers are collected in California, by bonsaists, every year? One thousand?, Ten thousand? One hundred thousand yamadori?
I say, definitely not one hundred thousand, and not even ten thousand. I would suggest, no more than five thousand (half of that, probably by Maria Capra and Harry Hirao).
If we assume that the population of junipers is not growing overall, that means that 995,000 junipers are killed every year by land developers and contractors. So, is it fair to blame the bonsaist, who take 0.5%, or the developers, who take 99.5%.
I am not saying that junipers will last forever. I am just saying that bonsaist are a truly insignificant quantity.
In Japan, collecting Junipers became a national obsession. A large portion of their nation was invoved in the bonsai trade, one way or another. Owning a beautiful collected shimpaku was a status symbol.
Here in California, 99.9% of the population never even heard of collecting junipers, never mind being involved in it. Bonsai is a very long way from becoming national obsession here in the US.
Of course there are other, much more sensitive ecosystems here in the US, where removing a few thousand individuals could affect the survival of a certain species. But that is NOT the California Juniper.
Another thing: removing the junipers is not the biggest threat to it's extinction. The biggest threat is removing the juniper habitat, so that there is no chance that a certain piece of land will ever grow junipers again. And bonsaists do not remove land, by collecting a few trees. The protection needs curb new urban developments, which is the real threat.
If one square mile has about 5000 junipers (reasonable estimate), and we have around 20,000 square miles of juniper land, that means 100 million junipers alltogether.
Let's say that from every 100 junipers, one single seed germinates and survives, every year. This would mean that one million new junipers are added to the 100 million population, every year.
So, theoretically, we could collect, clear, log, etc. one million junipers every year, without further shrinking the population.
The question is, how many junipers are collected in California, by bonsaists, every year? One thousand?, Ten thousand? One hundred thousand yamadori?
I say, definitely not one hundred thousand, and not even ten thousand. I would suggest, no more than five thousand (half of that, probably by Maria Capra and Harry Hirao
).If we assume that the population of junipers is not growing overall, that means that 995,000 junipers are killed every year by land developers and contractors. So, is it fair to blame the bonsaist, who take 0.5%, or the developers, who take 99.5%.
I am not saying that junipers will last forever. I am just saying that bonsaist are a truly insignificant quantity.
In Japan, collecting Junipers became a national obsession. A large portion of their nation was invoved in the bonsai trade, one way or another. Owning a beautiful collected shimpaku was a status symbol.
Here in California, 99.9% of the population never even heard of collecting junipers, never mind being involved in it. Bonsai is a very long way from becoming national obsession here in the US.
Of course there are other, much more sensitive ecosystems here in the US, where removing a few thousand individuals could affect the survival of a certain species. But that is NOT the California Juniper.
Another thing: removing the junipers is not the biggest threat to it's extinction. The biggest threat is removing the juniper habitat, so that there is no chance that a certain piece of land will ever grow junipers again. And bonsaists do not remove land, by collecting a few trees. The protection needs curb new urban developments, which is the real threat.
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