Clearance Juniperus virginiana 'Grey Owl'

Eckhoffw

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St. Paul Mn.
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4b
Father’s Day stroll through the clearance section with the fam.
Not a lot available, but they did have some grey owl junipers for 15$.

I know it’s not a great bonsai species, as it’s a cultivar of ERC, but this had a interesting trunk so I grabbed it.

My daughter named it “prickles” which is appropriate. This thing is very unpleasant to the bare skin!4904CB03-1A72-431C-9EE0-FD7E4CB2481E.jpegD4512A69-1D63-4F1D-8DFD-1177257B9421.jpegAAFADE2F-1535-4F20-9060-B135D97074B8.jpeg

Here’s what I felt/saw , that seemed to have potential. BB61B058-E10E-4445-8F8F-D4BEDC4A0C12.jpeg
Cleaned out the dead and debris. BD09C39A-4DCC-46B2-8129-C6C6D72FAD90.jpeg
Had this nasty juncture of 5 branches from one point. 3B0BE804-49A1-4D90-AD38-A52AB359F188.jpegAF11A986-0DD9-4241-933B-D216AB5D64BA.jpeghad to deal with that. From there, I just cut back the vigorous shoots and have shown the bones of this one.71268C2C-D54B-478F-89F1-9A8CE67C75EC.jpegBD09C39A-4DCC-46B2-8129-C6C6D72FAD90.jpegI love the trunk line, but am going to have to chase foliage back as it’s pretty sparse on the interior.DAD4D33D-DE3A-40D1-8229-C7A911CF6CC1.jpegI plan on cutting back to this branch and wiring up for the new leader.411381BE-E014-4E1D-9F55-1231AA249CD3.jpeg
Ive decided to be patient and not do more at this point. 93C1973D-5AB1-4038-9674-F70C623C28BE.jpeg
 

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My advice is not to try to make it into a "regular" juniper bonsai. Other than removing branches that are absolutely in the wrong place, just make the tree pleasing to your eye. I would surely buy one like it if I found it in a nursery.
 
My advice is not to try to make it into a "regular" juniper bonsai. Other than removing branches that are absolutely in the wrong place, just make the tree pleasing to your eye. I would surely buy one like it if I found it in a nursery.
I’m not sure I know what you mean by “regular “juniper bonsai. Can you elaborate on this?
☺️
 
Well, at the cost of risking a mile-long thread, here's my take. I happen to like ERC. If this Grey Owl is in anyway similar, it might not respond to the same pruning and styling procedures as a more popular juniper species. It may or may not...... I don't know. If it does, you're home free. My experience leads me to believe that you may not get a "classic" Japanese style tree. My way of dealing with that is to just work with what the tree gives you, instead of forcing it into something it might not want to be. I'm sorry I can't be more exact, but I work "by hand and by eye" and really can't give you any exact procedures.

That being said, you have a marvelous tree there. I would gladly pay the full retail price if I found one.
 
I agree with Joe, but I apply this "work with what the tree gives you" approach to all my trees. I think you have some great bones there.
 
Well, at the cost of risking a mile-long thread, here's my take. I happen to like ERC. If this Grey Owl is in anyway similar, it might not respond to the same pruning and styling procedures as a more popular juniper species. It may or may not...... I don't know. If it does, you're home free. My experience leads me to believe that you may not get a "classic" Japanese style tree. My way of dealing with that is to just work with what the tree gives you, instead of forcing it into something it might not want to be. I'm sorry I can't be more exact, but I work "by hand and by eye" and really can't give you any exact procedures.

That being said, you have a marvelous tree there. I would gladly pay the full retail price if I found one.
Thanks for the encouraging words!
I agree. I will try to work with what the tree has to offer. My plan is to chase back foliage the best I can and work with the framework basically- as is.
 
You will love grey owl - so bad and so good. (Misbehaved but lovable) I didn't know they were cedar rather than juniper. I have trouble telling them apart especially in spring.
I had found an unusual juniper at the nursery just last year, was not happy with pruning, had weird cones, and finally found photos that identified it as some strange 'male' juniper. Then one day someone posts photos of hinoki cypress and I realized that was the problem, lol.
 
You had a really nice eye picking this one out, it's got a nice look to it.

It's given me an idea for a juniper that I had thought was doomed to be ugly forever, as it has a wild slingshot shape to it. If you imagine that virt you added with the low first branch removed, that part of the profile looks like my tree. Yours looks great, so now I know I just need to add a branch there.

Thankfully that's just as easy as cutting one off... right?
 
You will love grey owl - so bad and so good. (Misbehaved but lovable) I didn't know they were cedar rather than juniper. I have trouble telling them apart especially in spring.
I had found an unusual juniper at the nursery just last year, was not happy with pruning, had weird cones, and finally found photos that identified it as some strange 'male' juniper. Then one day someone posts photos of hinoki cypress and I realized that was the problem, lol.
It is both. Eastern Red Cedar is Juniperus virginiana. Common names are a real crap shoot.
 
I have no experience with 'Grey Owl', but it is a dwarf and prostrate cultivar. It only reaches about 2% of the size of the parent species! That is a huge genetic change, and might make it much more suitable for bonsai than the species.
 
I have been growing Grey Owls and the similar Grey Guardians for several years. Foliage, bark and wood are like ERC. Growth is vigorous and much tighter than typical for the species. I have not noticed that the growth is noticeably prostrate.
I think they will make good and/or acceptable bonsai, but not like shimpaku or p. nana. The growth and look are just different.
 
I have been growing Grey Owls and the similar Grey Guardians for several years. Foliage, bark and wood are like ERC. Growth is vigorous and much tighter than typical for the species. I have not noticed that the growth is noticeably prostrate.
I think they will make good and/or acceptable bonsai, but not like shimpaku or p. nana. The growth and look are just different.
Thank you very much for the info. Kind of what I was hoping.
Like ERC, but different in some good ways.
I’m getting used to working with floppy junipers as I have a bunch of Sabina -‘Scandia’ that have similarly loose foliage.

Definitely a challenge.
 
Fall cleanup. Removing wires where I can. View attachment 512960
I’m going to do root work in the spring. I’m debating on whether I want to put it in the ground or in a training pot. 🤔
Any thoughts?
I have problems keeping up with trees planted in the ground and they get out of control because I'm lazy and inattentive. My choice would be to pot up.
 
Seeing how my junipers gained trunks in the ground, my vote is ground.
Yeah, I’m kind of leaning this way.
Many of my first trees (junipers) I bought 5 yrs ago were put in small plastic training pots. They have gotten bigger, but in 5 yrs, the trunks have only gone from approximately 3/8” to 1/2”.
I think Maybe in an Anderson flat in the ground.
One less tree on the bench is also a plus.
 
You will love grey owl - so bad and so good. (Misbehaved but lovable) I didn't know they were cedar rather than juniper. I have trouble telling them apart especially in spring.
I had found an unusual juniper at the nursery just last year, was not happy with pruning, had weird cones, and finally found photos that identified it as some strange 'male' juniper. Then one day someone posts photos of hinoki cypress and I realized that was the problem, lol.

This is the reason I usually only use botanical names. Common names are misleading and change depending on what part of the world you live in. In North America, we have the native fruit Pawpaw, Asimina triloba, but in Denmark, Holland, much of the EU and South Africa, Pawpaw is usually thought to mean Carica papaya, the fruit we in North America call Papaya.

Similarly Juniperus virginiana is called eastern red cedar, eastern juniper, red juniper and Virginian juniper. Our members in the EU, Japan, Australia or China might not know any of these common names. They have their own species of Juniperus, and our Juniperus virginiana is likely prohibited from being exported to their countries due to its tendency to be infected with several different rust diseases.

The only true cedars are in the old world genus Cedrus, Cedrus atlantica, and Cedrus libani being two of the most well known species, Atlas cedar and Cedar of Lebanon. All other use of term cedar is colloquial and is not botanically correct, British colonizers tended to call any conifer with fragrant wood "cedar" paying zero attention to botanical relationships.

Newer members probably are not familiar with botanical names, so I will go on about this in an effort to help them "catch up". This forum is international in its membership. Many of our members are not native speakers of English. Therefore we should not assume everyone knows what specific species is intended by the use of common names. Here botanical names really help.

So at least once in a post it is helpful to use the botanical name, after which it is perfectly acceptable to fall back to the "common name" once it is clear which botanical name the common name is referring to. To be "totally correct" the botanical name should be italicized and the cultivar name should be in single quotes. In writing for scientific papers additionally the botanical name should be followed by the name or accepted abbreviation of the original author of the name and the year the name was published. But this level of detail is absolutely not necessary for a friendly conversational forum. Even doing the italics is not really needed except if it makes a long paragraph easier to read, in that it separates the botanical name from the rest of the sentence.

Now, back to Juniperus virginiana 'Grey Owl' - this is an interesting cultivar. It is believed to be a hybrid, but it is not clear what its parentage is. It was found in a flat of Juniperus virginiana seedlings, and was propagated because of its unique color and growth habit. It is usually listed as J. virginiana 'Grey Owl' or Juniperus 'Grey Owl' because it is believed one parent is J. virginiana, but its growth habits are different enough from the normal forms of virginiana that it is definitely thought of as a hybrid. This hybrid nature makes it much more acceptable for bonsai. It has been used with a fair amount of success.

The normal form of Juniperus virginiana has a poor or mixed track record as a bonsai subject. Despite it being a very common shrub east of the Rocky Mountains, there are only a handful of J. virginiana bonsai that are of "show quality". This is not for lack of trying. It is a difficult species to work with. It tends to keep needle foliage, or if it does develop mature scale foliage, it will often revert back to juvenile foliage with the least little bit of pruning or fertilization. Also, Juniperus virginiana is very prone to the many varieties of rust, cedar apple rust, cedar pear rust, cedar quince rust and the several other varieties in this family of fungal infections. Infections are difficult to treat, often branches are lost to the fungus, and the juniper on your bench then infects the members of the apple and rose family you might have on your bench.

If you want to work with Junipers, I recommend getting one of the 'Shimpaku' varieties. 'Itoigawa' and 'Kishu' are widely available from bonsai nurseries and are well worth seeking out. They are easy to work with. 'Grey Owl' is okay, but will have some quirky issues due to its J. virginiana ancestry. I strongly recommend avoiding the normal wild form of Juniperus virginiana, it will frustrate you over the long run. If you don't believe me, do a side by side comparison, pick up a few 'Kishu' cuttings and run them side by side with some J virginiana seedlings. In 5 years and 10 years evaluate the differences. The 'Kishu' will win in every category as far as bonsai training is concerned.

There are a small few spectacular J. virginiana in public collections, but generally a species with a poor or problematic tract record.
 
This is the reason I usually only use botanical names. Common names are misleading and change depending on what part of the world you live in. In North America, we have the native fruit Pawpaw, Asimina triloba, but in Denmark, Holland, much of the EU and South Africa, Pawpaw is usually thought to mean Carica papaya, the fruit we in North America call Papaya.

Similarly Juniperus virginiana is called eastern red cedar, eastern juniper, red juniper and Virginian juniper. Our members in the EU, Japan, Australia or China might not know any of these common names. They have their own species of Juniperus, and our Juniperus virginiana is likely prohibited from being exported to their countries due to its tendency to be infected with several different rust diseases.

The only true cedars are in the old world genus Cedrus, Cedrus atlantica, and Cedrus libani being two of the most well known species, Atlas cedar and Cedar of Lebanon. All other use of term cedar is colloquial and is not botanically correct, British colonizers tended to call any conifer with fragrant wood "cedar" paying zero attention to botanical relationships.

Newer members probably are not familiar with botanical names, so I will go on about this in an effort to help them "catch up". This forum is international in its membership. Many of our members are not native speakers of English. Therefore we should not assume everyone knows what specific species is intended by the use of common names. Here botanical names really help.

So at least once in a post it is helpful to use the botanical name, after which it is perfectly acceptable to fall back to the "common name" once it is clear which botanical name the common name is referring to. To be "totally correct" the botanical name should be italicized and the cultivar name should be in single quotes. In writing for scientific papers additionally the botanical name should be followed by the name or accepted abbreviation of the original author of the name and the year the name was published. But this level of detail is absolutely not necessary for a friendly conversational forum. Even doing the italics is not really needed except if it makes a long paragraph easier to read, in that it separates the botanical name from the rest of the sentence.

Now, back to Juniperus virginiana 'Grey Owl' - this is an interesting cultivar. It is believed to be a hybrid, but it is not clear what its parentage is. It was found in a flat of Juniperus virginiana seedlings, and was propagated because of its unique color and growth habit. It is usually listed as J. virginiana 'Grey Owl' or Juniperus 'Grey Owl' because it is believed one parent is J. virginiana, but its growth habits are different enough from the normal forms of virginiana that it is definitely thought of as a hybrid. This hybrid nature makes it much more acceptable for bonsai. It has been used with a fair amount of success.

The normal form of Juniperus virginiana has a poor or mixed track record as a bonsai subject. Despite it being a very common shrub east of the Rocky Mountains, there are only a handful of J. virginiana bonsai that are of "show quality". This is not for lack of trying. It is a difficult species to work with. It tends to keep needle foliage, or if it does develop mature scale foliage, it will often revert back to juvenile foliage with the least little bit of pruning or fertilization. Also, Juniperus virginiana is very prone to the many varieties of rust, cedar apple rust, cedar pear rust, cedar quince rust and the several other varieties in this family of fungal infections. Infections are difficult to treat, often branches are lost to the fungus, and the juniper on your bench then infects the members of the apple and rose family you might have on your bench.

If you want to work with Junipers, I recommend getting one of the 'Shimpaku' varieties. 'Itoigawa' and 'Kishu' are widely available from bonsai nurseries and are well worth seeking out. They are easy to work with. 'Grey Owl' is okay, but will have some quirky issues due to its J. virginiana ancestry. I strongly recommend avoiding the normal wild form of Juniperus virginiana, it will frustrate you over the long run. If you don't believe me, do a side by side comparison, pick up a few 'Kishu' cuttings and run them side by side with some J virginiana seedlings. In 5 years and 10 years evaluate the differences. The 'Kishu' will win in every category as far as bonsai training is concerned.

There are a small few spectacular J. virginiana in public collections, but generally a species with a poor or problematic tract record.
I should look into the ones you mention just because I really enjoy the junipers despite only having started on them a couple or three years ago. But what to do when the only available locally Parsonii , procumbens, and sea green?
For now, I need to look into this associating grey owl to virginiana because they are nothing the same to me but I will post photos if it's okay with eckhoff or start a new trhread.
 
For young material, my long time favorite nursery is mail order. Junipers grow fast enough that if you start with gallon size material you can have a nice "ready for local club shows" tree in 5 years or maybe less or a little more.

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