Clay bound collected pine

[bonsfl]

I have a pine I collected in January from NC. It’s in a 10gallon nursery container right now, it hasn’t died yet. Problem is it still has all the red clay around the root ball. In my experience, clay is tricky to clean off, and will fall off and take roots with it. How do I successfully remove the clay so I can place it in proper soil? I also am aware that pines don’t like to be bare rooted.

Does anyone have experience with clay bound collected pines?

 

[rockm]

I have a pine I collected in January from NC. It’s in a 10gallon nursery container right now, it hasn’t died yet. Problem is it still has all the red clay around the root ball. In my experience, clay is tricky to clean off, and will fall off and take roots with it. How do I successfully remove the clay so I can place it in proper soil? I also am aware that pines don’t like to be bare rooted.

Does anyone have experience with clay bound collected pines?

I’ve dug Virginia lines from Clark soil. It sux and is very hard to do to wind up with a live tree. Generally clay soil induces very very long primary roots since clay is nutritionally poor. The tree has to search for nutrients in it. I’m surprised you got a tree out with enough roots to sustain it


You can’t and shouldn’t try to get it off all at once. Barerooting is a death sentence. You should plan on the process taking a few years. Work in thirds to fourths of the root mass every couple of years—if possible since every repot brings the danger of self-barerooting when the soil simply falls off the roots. Haven’t had one survive when that happens

Find a better place to collect. Clay is the worst

 

[johng]

I wouldn't do anything until you are sure the tree is alive... IF the tree lives (doubtful unless it is a small seedling) the only way to get rid of the clay without damaging the roots is with water. I would probably soak it for multiple days and let the clay "dissolve". Depending on the clay, you may also be able to wash it away with a water hose.

 

[Gabler]

Rockm is correct, but I do have a few questions that could help to get some more targeted advice.

Firstly, do you have any idea how old the tree is? I have bare-rooted many loblolly pines growing in clay that were all less than five years old. They can actually get pretty big in that amount of time, and they have enough vigor to put out new roots to compensate for the ones they lost. If it's an older tree, forget it.

What species? A vigorous species like loblolly pine is going to be able to handle much more abuse than a slow-growing species like mugo pine.

What does the current root ball look like? Did you cut through thick structural roots to get the tree out of the ground, or did it have a fibrous root system close to the trunk? The more fine roots, the more wiggle room you have to start removing some of the clay.

How was the overall health of the tree at collection? Was it growing quickly, with thick, coarse branching, or was it a stunted tree? For a vigorous tree, I would be less hesitant to remove clay. For a stunted tree, wait a couple of years to get it established in a pot.

Edit: John G. is also correct. He posted while I was writing a response.

 

[bonsfl]

Rockm is correct, but I do have a few questions that could help to get some more targeted advice.

Firstly, do you have any idea how old the tree is? I have bare-rooted many loblolly pines growing in clay that were all less than five years old. They can actually get pretty big in that amount of time, and they have enough vigor to put out new roots to compensate for the ones they lost. If it's an older tree, forget it.

What species? A vigorous species like loblolly pine is going to be able to handle much more abuse than a slow-growing species like mugo pine.

What does the current root ball look like? Did you cut through thick structural roots to get the tree out of the ground, or did it have a fibrous root system close to the trunk? The more fine roots, the more wiggle room you have to start removing some of the clay.

I cut a tap root and another structural root. There were many finer roots that I could see, I made sure to dig a trench around the tree and work in until I go to smaller roots. I don’t believe it’s a loblolly. It’s about 2-3 inches thick at the base, it’s needles are fairly short w/ 2 needles per bunch

 

[bonsfl]

Rockm is correct, but I do have a few questions that could help to get some more targeted advice.

Firstly, do you have any idea how old the tree is? I have bare-rooted many loblolly pines growing in clay that were all less than five years old. They can actually get pretty big in that amount of time, and they have enough vigor to put out new roots to compensate for the ones they lost. If it's an older tree, forget it.

What species? A vigorous species like loblolly pine is going to be able to handle much more abuse than a slow-growing species like mugo pine.

What does the current root ball look like? Did you cut through thick structural roots to get the tree out of the ground, or did it have a fibrous root system close to the trunk? The more fine roots, the more wiggle room you have to start removing some of the clay.

How was the overall health of the tree at collection? Was it growing quickly, with thick, coarse branching, or was it a stunted tree? For a vigorous tree, I would be less hesitant to remove clay. For a stunted tree, wait a couple of years to get it established in a pot.

Edit: John G. is also correct. He posted while I was writing a response.

 

[bonsfl]

See

 

[Gabler]

I would not have wired it right away after collection. It's best to let the tree recover.

 

[Gabler]

That appears to be a relatively young tree, which is likely why it has survived collection. For now, do your best to forget about it and focus on other things. Be careful not to water too often, and don't do any more wiring, pruning, etc. Just let the tree grow to regain its health for at least a full year.

 

[bonsfl]

That appears to be a relatively young tree, which is likely why it has survived collection. For now, do your best to forget about it and focus on other things. Be careful not to water too often, and don't do any more wiring, pruning, etc. Just let the tree grow to regain its health for at least a full year.

So I should just leave it in the nursery container until next year? I was thinking about possibly taking it out and putting it in the ground

 

[Gabler]

So I should just leave it in the nursery container until next year?

Yup. Once it is growing vigorously, you can remove half the clay and replace it with pumice or perlite, topped with sphagnum moss to prevent the pumice or perlite from drying out too quickly. A year or more later, do the same to the other half of the rootball. Traditionally, you would do one side and then the other, but some will advocate cleaning the top half of the root ball and then removing the bottom half in order to get the tree into a more shallow pot more quickly. Be sure to do your homework first, so you know the possible pitfalls. This website is a gold mine of information, and there are a few good YouTubers (such as John G.), who have great instructional content.

 

[KateM]

Also, it appears to have some pine needle gall midge evidence. Don't think it's devastaing, just an observatin...

 

[MaciekA]

The common "never bare root pines" advice isn't generically applicable to all cases, and it doesn't apply to coarse/youthful-structured pines or seedlings / near-seedlings. This pine is a seedling and is exactly the kind of material I would have bare rooted upon collection.

From a pine grower's POV it is highly contractory to baby the roots of a freshly-collected seedling but to then wire the trunk line. Think of the contradiction this way: The idea of not touching the roots comes from not wanting to disrupt the flow of water/sap from roots to tips. But wiring also disrupts the flow of water/sap.

 

[bonsfl]

The common "never bare root pines" advice isn't generically applicable to all cases, and it doesn't apply to coarse/youthful-structured pines or seedlings / near-seedlings. This pine is a seedling and is exactly the kind of material I would have bare rooted upon collection.

From a pine grower's POV it is highly contractory to baby the roots of a freshly-collected seedling but to then wire the trunk line. Think of the contradiction this way: The idea of not touching the roots comes from not wanting to disrupt the flow of water/sap from roots to tips. But wiring also disrupts the flow of water/sap.

I really wouldn’t call this a seedling. It was around 6ft tall when I collected it, I trunk chopped quite a bit

 

[RoadManDenDron]

So, disclaimer: I don't know about the clay you're talking about directly and there may be differences between what I experience

I have yamadori pines from Spain, where the soil is clay,

These are potted at collection with pumice around the edges and allowed to recover for a couple years

Many people seeking to remove the clay, then go and pull them out the pots and start to work the clay out

I was advised by a Spanish yamadori guy, to leave the tree in the pot, and begin to work the clay out from the centre, replacing with better soil or pumice (gradually)

That way, the new roots which have hopefully grown into the pumice are not damaged or bare rooted by removal from the pot