Chinese elm repot/root advice

[gfreak]

Was getting this Chinese elm out of the nursery soil. And realized they must've just planted up a bit over the trunk.

Would love thoughts as to what y'all would do .

Leave that lower trunk partially exposed liken nebar?

Eventually cut that off?

My original plan was to plant it as a plant off to the left but now that guys in the way unless I just cover it up again and pretend it's not there


Thoughts/opinions/advice?

 

[gfreak]

Thinking to just scrap the original plan and go with this as the new front now lol

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yep.

Actually it’s a pretty powerful looking base once the one stray root is chopped, with good trunk movement above, given its planted up a bit.

Think about mossing it deeply about the fibrous roots coming from the base so they are keep moist and can fatten up.

Now ‘all that needs to be done’ is create a top to compliment.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[gfreak]

Yep.

Actually it’s a pretty powerful looking base once the one stray root is chopped, with good trunk movement above, given its planted up a bit.

Think about mossing it deeply about the fibrous roots coming from the base so they are keep moist and can fatten up.

Now ‘all that needs to be done’ is create a top to compliment.

cheers
DSD sends

About that extra root coming out of the crotch there. Would you trim it at that point now? It's actually the end of a big root coming off of the back side of the "hidden" trunk. And just wrapping around. So definitely can't remove the whole thing ATM as its got a lot of small roots on it

But could probably get away with just cutting it at the part coming out towards the front?

 

[gfreak]

Was actually able to pull that root back away from the front without cutting it. So did that for now

Edit: The pot was also one wigert had on sale for $10, pretty happy with it for that price especially lol

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Nice!

Just a hint on how to get successful moss coverage for bonsai.

• Before mossing take the dry moss and soak it thoroughly for about an hour or two.
  Clear all bark off the media, unless it’s part of the media
• Next take tweezers (bent nose work best for this) and ‘tuck’ wads of moss all around the edge of the pot and all around the roots firmly into the media.
• Finally take more wads of moss and work inward from the edge of the pot moss and outward from the nebari until there is 100% coverage over the media.
• Place tree in afternoon shade for 1-2 weeks.

As one can see above the birds created a couple easy to patch holes in the moss.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[gfreak]

Nice!

Just a hint on how to get successful moss coverage for bonsai.

• Before mossing take the dry moss and soak it thoroughly for about an hour or two.
  Clear all bark off the media, unless it’s part of the media
• Next take tweezers (bent nose work best for this) and ‘tuck’ wads of moss all around the edge of the pot and all around the roots firmly into the media.
• Finally take more wads of moss and work inward from the edge of the pot moss and outward from the nebari until there is 100% coverage over the media.
• Place tree in afternoon shade for 1-2 weeks.

View attachment 505491

As one can see above the birds created a couple easy to patch holes in the moss.

cheers
DSD sends

Ooh, ok will definitely re-do the moss. appreciate it!

All i have is sphagnum moss though, will that work the same way as collected moss?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

We normally use Yamagoke (Mountain moss) alone or mixed with Sphagnum moss in our area with or without local moss. I’ve found Yamagoke greens up the fastest out here.

Sphagnum will do the job. The key is to keep the moss moist not wet for at least two weeks. ( likely more in your area in summertime and more shade too!). Then the local moss spores will start to germinate within the Sphagnum.

Based upon word of mouth each area has its own techniques, but the one described above ought to get you going.

Good Luck!
DSD sends

 

[gfreak]

We normally use Yamagoke (Mountain moss) alone or mixed with Sphagnum moss in our area with or without local moss. I’ve found Yamagoke greens up the fastest out here.

Sphagnum will do the job. The key is to keep the moss moist not wet for at least two weeks. ( likely more in your area in summertime and more shade too!). Then the local moss spores will start to germinate within the Sphagnum.

Based upon word of mouth each area has its own techniques, but the one described above ought to get you going.

Good Luck!
DSD sends

Gotcha!! Thanks a ton for the advice. Gonna spend the day doing that with a few of my other trees now too lol

 

[Shibui]

A couple of thick roots is normal root development for a Chinese elm. We can develop much better nebari but need to do some hard root pruning to do that.
Chinese elm can usually cope with radical root reduction. I would have chopped way more of the thick roots because I know it is OK and I also know that new roots will grow from the cut ends which would give way better nebari in a few years. However I also understand hard root prune is frightening for a new grower so better to leave more than chop hard until you get comfortable with the processes.
By burying the area there's a good chance that some new roots could grow. Wounding the area will increase the chances of new roots even more.

 

[gfreak]

A couple of thick roots is normal root development for a Chinese elm. We can develop much better nebari but need to do some hard root pruning to do that.
Chinese elm can usually cope with radical root reduction. I would have chopped way more of the thick roots because I know it is OK and I also know that new roots will grow from the cut ends which would give way better nebari in a few years. However I also understand hard root prune is frightening for a new grower so better to leave more than chop hard until you get comfortable with the processes.
By burying the area there's a good chance that some new roots could grow. Wounding the area will increase the chances of new roots even more.

Even at this time of year? (end of summer here) would you do hard cuts on roots?

Also is that something more specific to chinese elms for the nebari on cutting back that far on thick roots? Or a general thing

 

[Shibui]

Even at this time of year? (end of summer here) would you do hard cuts on roots?

Good point. Timing may be important. I do most hard root pruning in spring before buds open. I am told by reliable growers in warmer areas that Chinese elm can be repotted any time of year but have not tried anything other than early spring so can't confirm or deny.

Also is that something more specific to chinese elms for the nebari on cutting back that far on thick roots? Or a general thing

Elms are one of the genus that seem to grow just a few thick roots if left to their own devices. Chinese quince is another one I have come across. Hard root pruning, especially early in life, can make a big difference and produce more lateral roots for better nebari.
I also hard prune roots on most species as seedlings to induce more laterals for better nebari - JBP, trident, Japanese maple, Chinese elm, Chinese quince, oaks, ficus, pretty much all seedlings I've tried respond to early root pruning.
Some species don't respond as well as they get older. Pines don't seem to like real hard root pruning after the first few years. Some Australian natives have declined after very hard root reduction. There are probably other genera with similar difficulty recovering from massive root reduction.
I still root prune tridents very hard up to 10 years old if necessary. Have not had the need to chop roots of older tridents but suspect it could be done.
Olives can safely be drastically root pruned even when older. We routinely flat cut collected olives and plant trunks up to 30cm diameter as giant cuttings.

 

[gfreak]

Good point. Timing may be important. I do most hard root pruning in spring before buds open. I am told by reliable growers in warmer areas that Chinese elm can be repotted any time of year but have not tried anything other than early spring so can't confirm or deny.

Elms are one of the genus that seem to grow just a few thick roots if left to their own devices. Chinese quince is another one I have come across. Hard root pruning, especially early in life, can make a big difference and produce more lateral roots for better nebari.
I also hard prune roots on most species as seedlings to induce more laterals for better nebari - JBP, trident, Japanese maple, Chinese elm, Chinese quince, oaks, ficus, pretty much all seedlings I've tried respond to early root pruning.
Some species don't respond as well as they get older. Pines don't seem to like real hard root pruning after the first few years. Some Australian natives have declined after very hard root reduction. There are probably other genera with similar difficulty recovering from massive root reduction.
I still root prune tridents very hard up to 10 years old if necessary. Have not had the need to chop roots of older tridents but suspect it could be done.
Olives can safely be drastically root pruned even when older. We routinely flat cut collected olives and plant trunks up to 30cm diameter as giant cuttings.

Awesome, thanks a ton for all the info! JBP's /chinese elms are my next projects so i'll try doing those harder root prunes earlier, especially ont he jbp's since they're all seedlings at the m oment.