Cedar refining

[maroun.c]

Didn't find much info on cedar refining techniques so appreciate help on below:
- Being an elongating species would the same.technique for spruce work for cedars:
Pinch new growth thats out of the desired pads length as its elongating in spring or post harden prune.around may June? Does that enhance backbudding in cedar ? Will it also help woth internode length or is that not related ? How to reduce internode length? Only by decreasing amount of fertilizer or by fertilizing post hardening only ?
- General shaping for cedar as its an alpine conifer would be small triangular pads ? Does that apply to all cedars ? I'm mostly into Lebanese cedar as its local and I see trees with huge pads and multiple apices .... so would you style as per bonsai trend for alpine species with smaller thinner pads or as old trees go with large pads, multiple apices and common dead apices which is deadwood in the case of bonsai and 2ndary apices that take over which I believe would create age as tree lost an apex due to snow, wind exposure or lightning.... and another leader took over.
Tha ks for any advice or pics of cedar bonsai you have for inspiration.

 

[Shibui]

I always favour making bonsai look like real trees. Use your local trees for inspiration. Try to spot general trends that apply to the species rather than trying to copy a single, way out individual. Your observations that libani often has multiple apices and large pads is the sort of generalization I look at too.

Hard to get back budding in cedars so you really need to start with smaller, close in branches and use those to develop the branching rather than trying to cut back long, bare branches and hope for new shoots. Use wire to reposition smaller side shoots to contribute to branch pads if possible.

I was taught to pinch new spring shoots as soon as they elongate enough to get hold of and break or cut. Theory is that very new shoots can still develop new buds for more density. Further experimenting shows that letting spring shoots elongate and harden then cut back achieves almost the same result. By that time I can see dormant buds along the shoot. Like pines, cedars are able to produce new buds at the junction of new and old wood so if the new growth is too long just cut back close to the base of that new shoot (like decandling pines) and you'll almost certainly get new buds.

I don't think cedars have internodes like deciduous? Distance between buds will reduce with pruning and with reduced fertilizer.

 

[maroun.c]

Thanks for all the info, Checked many pictures of Lebanese cedar trees and indeed they do have large pads, multiple apices,and older trees get dead apices and other branches that take as a new leader or apex. My understanding was that alpine trees would have smaller tginner and pointed pads to avoid a sail effect against wind and snow loaf but that's not the case.
Will plan a trip to cedars forest to observe general shapes and find a few trees with similar features to my trees that I could replicate maybe.
Yes no internode on cedars I meant distance between buds.