Care and styling advice for my ito

[RichS]

Just received this itoigawa a few days ago from Evergreen gardenworks. I have no clue where to even begin. I have a small collection of trees in development. Nothing i would consider bonsai. When I ordered this i had asked mr Brent for something older. My last couple trees from him were pretty typical as far as growing vertically in some fashion or another. When I opened this one at first I thought it was slipping from its container. Then i realized it's growing this way. Any advice would be great. For example should I keep it sitting at this angle? I'm following his advice to just leave it be for now as far as not doing any hard pruning or root work. But is there anything I CAN do to insure it flourishes? Besides making sure it's watered properly and fertilized I mean. I guess what I'm asking is should I just let it remain at this "angle" as its growing. Everytime i look at it I start scratching my head lol

 

[sorce]

Good God! How did this get lost for 6 hours. And I'm sorry you got missed for your Welcome to Crazy.

Yeah....

I dig small trees and using what you have.
These can stay tight so eff growing it out yeah?

That said..
It has great movement straight away then completely lacks it, but there is interest begging to be brought out of that straight part. The bitchin angle compensates for any straighteness too. The roots out front holding it there make sense and tell of..."keep this angle".

I would keep everything within this orange to work back slowly into the green. All those roots trunk and branches are still proportionatly useable.

How and when to get it there....
Better left to others. But all that is a great start as far as proportions trunks branches and this being bitchin soon goes!

IMO.

My go to is here.
https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/the-shimpaku-juniper-its-secret-history-from-kindai-shuppan-2003/

That's a great article to get a greater respect for these trees and I think that is more important than knowing when to cut them.

Plus you can learn when to cut them!

The foliage seems a bit whipper than mine, I don't know if that means you should or should do something!

But for the love of Bonsai use that trunk and don't let someone convince you to wire it up into some shit I can buy at Wal-Mart!

For me you only need to ignore everything outside the orange for now. Keep it for health.

Cut everything back a little within that profile and wire it (by any means necessary) so a few branches are moving toward good 3d pads on different planes ...

That's all safe and by the time you need to do anything else the tree will provide the next sign....

Sorry so been urchin to wore nine and been keen on buying new ones....

You wanna sell it? Hehehehe!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Deep Sea freaking Urchins!

I'm going old school Madden play by play to kill confusion.

Don't cut anything but at the green lines.
The green lines are your only cuts now.

But is there anything I CAN do to insure it flourishes

Do your best to ignore everything beyond the yellow, it is there to power you thru styling and potting this tree. Wire it out of the way of what you will keep. So the small tree you are beginning to build has full sun.

The blue lines are the branches you are nourishing, those are your tree. You must safely wire them into positions for good sun.
Doesn't have to be final or even correct, just move them so they have sun on as much of the entire length of branch, especially the bare part where you need buds.

Do not cut the yellow!

This works for me because the roots and their angles dictate the tale of the trunk, whose angle works well and stay in good proportion to create...

All of the multi colored triangle/angles..
So if you style your pads in complimentary triangles(green), with branches at similar angles.
Your whole image in the end is also a triangle.

And it works because the triangle is the strongest shape!

That top ? Branch is your hardest labor.

Sorce

 

[RichS]

Ok so first of all THANK you sincerely for the advice. I start to think I had did something wrong with my post. I have been reading from this site for almost 2 years. Just never thought to register. Glad I Did! So do you think I should go ahead and start on this immediately? With my first purchase (a kishu and alot smaller) mr Brent said to just leave it alone for a season or 2 to build trunk caliper. But when i got this ito (after asking for something tht maybe "stuck out from the rest ?) I just had no idea. I've been researching the "slanting style?" And from what I've seen it just seemed like I was in over my head lol. I asked for it so to speak and Mr Brent delivered lol. After I do as you suggest should I just leave it growing at this angle? I mean I guess I really don't have a choice lol. I took more pics for a better idea. Thank so much!

 

[RichS]

This thing seems like it has potential. Just hope I'm up for the challenge ??

 

[RichS]

And those branches I cut should I try and plant them

 

[sorce]

I start to think I had did something wrong with my post. I

Figured that. Crazy in that this is a EGW Shimp!

I always balk when folks say,..

After I do as you suggest

Scares the shit out of me! Especially with no one more experienced in agreement.

But it is a safe plan.

However....up close...you may find something better, so ALWAYS with a grain of Sea Salt.. The big chunks!

Plus...they say March is a good time to take cuttings.....so root em up!

How's your wiring hand?

You want to use ANNEALED copper.
But if you're going about it on the Hill named Billy....
You can strip the old telephone line out of your house and use that without annealing it.

Thermostat wire....

That small size, not annealed...is fine to use still wrapped and color coded.

Search For Colin Lewis' wiring video on craftsy! Golden! Free!

If you are going to be using Shimpaku regularly, learning to wire appropriately now is EVERYTHING!

That's a nice little wiggle in the trunk too!
Adds to the plan and I see nothing changing MY mind....but remember that Salt!

I'm going to fimd a video....

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Gold!

Sorce

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Keep turning it around and tilting it, looking at it from different angles. It might have a better tree than the current slant. Interesting Bonsai don’t usually start with a straight section of trunk, so challenge yourself to look past the current angle. Dig around in the soil and see if you can raise the planting angle and feature some movement below the straight section. Don’t be afraid to wire the trunk and create some more movement. At this size, your ability and imagination are the only limits.

In the meantime, you should start cleaning it up, by removing weak growth, stuff growing in the “crotches” of woody branches, and the downward hanging stuff...more or less as sorce recommended.

After that, you can prune it back a little, which will start to push growth back closer to the trunk. Get some help potting it up to a slightly larger container with coarser soil now, so you can start feeding heavily. Lots of sun. Spend the next 10 months getting the tree strong and vigorous, and settled into a larger pot. In that time, you’ll find sections of the trunk that have good movement and you’ll want to feature. Ultimately that will determine your front and planting angle.

Here is a thread showing a larger shimpaku (also from Brent) being slowly trained over several years, following the steps above. https://bonsainut.com/threads/shimpaku-project.4389/#post-58176

The next round of photos you take should be against a plain background to make it easier for people to jump in with design tips. Have fun, my favorite junipers are Itoigawa. Expect them to revert to juvenile growth for a while setting the initial design, but over a few years, the bright green scale foliage will return.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Here is another thread on developing Itoigawa stock from Brent.
https://bonsainut.com/threads/itoigawa-juniper-stock.8647/#post-108225
And a before-after representing 7 years:

 

[RichS]

Thanks for all the advice. The video was great. And it's amazing seeing another tree from Brent turned into something so beautiful. I'm currently thinning out the weak foilage and branches. And I tried chopsticking some soil away from the base to raise the angle but i think I just hit a "wall" I'm goin to tease out some of the feeder roots around and under (just a little I'm not cutting anything there) and potting it into a larger container. Someone suggested a pond basket? Or colander? But i don't know if that's right. What do y'all think so far? I just want to be on the right track.

 

[RichS]

Here's my wall ?

 

[RichS]

And here's my mix. Turface perlite pine bark all sifted

 

[RichS]

Top view

 

[RichS]

Underneath.

I thinned out alot so far but as you can see its a jungle lol. Still trying to figure whether I cut this or this or this lol. I'll wire like yall suggested and maybe thatll give it more sense ??

 

[choppychoppy]

So this can be a nice little tree - bring it by if you come to a class. I would try to find a nice trunk line and then get to wiring. This tree is exactly what these looked like before they had the initial work.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

No pond baskets.

 

[flor1]

Your not that far from D&L bonsai call Don and take a class or go to a workshop.
That nice a tree would be money well spent.

 

[Rick C]

Your not that far from D&L bonsai call Don and take a class or go to a workshop.
That nice a tree would be money well spent.

Agree, David is fantastic... I am lucky I am a 15 minutes from him and he has been great at helping me see beyond my initial impression... he holds a bring your own tree workshop every month.

nice tree looking forward to watching a progression

 

[RichS]

Yea I've been wanting to check out his nursery.