Can I dunk a bare root yearling in miracle-gro dilution?

[nuttiest]

I have been trying to see if I can revert a schefflera back to an epiphyte and took it out of its soil about a month ago. I mounted it with no soil on a dead tree branch but put a small amount of spaghnum underneath. It looks like it has a deficiency and needs to be fertilized or something. This is a tree type and not a shrub type, but I want to do more types if I can get this to work.

Has anyone revived something this way?

 

[Nera]

Following! Will be interested to hear what the experienced Bonsai owners say.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Very interesting!

In regards to your actual question I have no idea, I don't use miracle grow to know it's safe limits

But I would recommend a foliar feed with fulvic acid and kelp, possibly even calmag and B vitamins if you have a good range of biostimulants

This can get a range of micros straight into the plant tissues and bypass the roots, while also encouraging further root development.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

At half the normal strength, it should be fine.
I've grown full naked plant embryos in Gamborg B5 medium and murashige and skoog medium. The key is to not overdo it and stick with a low dosage.

But the question is whether it's a deficiency or just normal behavior during rooting; some plants sacrifice some leaves to lower the evaporation rate, which can't be stopped no matter how the plant feels.

 

[Shibui]

It looks like it has a deficiency and needs to be fertilized or something.

Before deciding what fert to use we need to know what is the deficiency?
Some treatments only have micro nutrients so great for iron, calcium or Mg deficiency but if the tree is N deficient it really needs a quick source of N. That's where good, soluble nutrients come in.
Half strength anything should be fine. Probably full strength liquid fert will be fine. We can use fertiliser at full strength on epiphytic orchids so why would it be a problem for a Schefflera?

 

[nuttiest]

the question is whether it's a deficiency or just normal behavior during rooting

hard to tell, the roots feel fine to touch, possibly the top is trying to die back to accommodate a root push. I planned two so I could do different things and water differently but one died, so I am looking for another candidate.

 

[nuttiest]

Very interesting!

In regards to your actual question I have no idea, I don't use miracle grow to know it's safe limits

But I would recommend a foliar feed with fulvic acid and kelp, possibly even calmag and B vitamins if you have a good range of biostimulants

This can get a range of micros straight into the plant tissues and bypass the roots, while also encouraging further root development.

I did not know that fulvic did that, or are you talking about all those things? I make my own humic water from mulch and base/acid and put in an 'alfalfa meal soup' with the kelp and booster vitamins. So I gave it a small dose of that. Well I would love to do the MS medium sometime again but I tried once and the bacteria liked it more than the cuttings.

 

[nuttiest]

Before deciding what fert to use we need to know what is the deficiency?
Some treatments only have micro nutrients so great for iron, calcium or Mg deficiency but if the tree is N deficient it really needs a quick source of N. That's where good, soluble nutrients come in.
Half strength anything should be fine. Probably full strength liquid fert will be fine. We can use fertiliser at full strength on epiphytic orchids so why would it be a problem for a Schefflera?

I will put up a photo tonight and you tell me... could be just needs water more often or for the normal humidity to return. I am not exactly impatient about that!

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I did not know that fulvic did that, or are you talking about all those things? I make my own humic water from mulch and base/acid and put in an 'alfalfa meal soup' with the kelp and booster vitamins. So I gave it a small dose of that. Well I would love to do the MS medium sometime again but I tried once and the bacteria liked it more than the cuttings.

Fulvic is more a transportation boost tbh

The kelp contains auxins- a rooting hormones

And cytokinins to signal cell division

Calmag is great for stronger cell walls and improved vascular system

B vitamins primes trees stress response and therefore increased resistance to environmental stresses

Very interested in your homemade concoction, do you have a thread for it?

 

[nuttiest]

Okay I will have to look up the fulvic and humic again but did you know that there is an organ at the end of the root tips that can take up whole molecules? Not elements, real molecules as large as proteins. We could be feeding them collagen someday. Or something that helps with heat exhaustion. What we didn't know just years ago!
Ok the recipe for the extraction of humic is on the internet but it says use sodium lye. You would not want to use sodium lye when there is potassium lye which adds potassium to the mix. I use a 5 gallon bucket and fill to half with water.. You will use about 1/2 cup potassium hydroxide granules and let dissolve and cool down 1 hour. Add mulch (I like Melaleuca mulch bonus oils) Let sit 1 day in the alkaline solution. Scoop out a jelly jar of base liquid and label for using later (to titrate back and forth ph) before adding acid.
Add acid. Phosphoric acid is a good choice because with the potassium it will make a compound similar to mkp in your water. The amount you will likely need can be calculated by doing Google search. Check pH after at least 15 minutes but this can still bounce because of the mulch and depending on your acid takes time to react. So now if the pH is too low, you can bring it back up with the saved lye water. Back and forth until it is neutral.
Then, I use regular alfalfa horse pellets. Alfalfa+soy pellets for rabbits are even better. Both reportedly have many enzymes that are not found elsewhere. I put them in a tub and cover with the humic water once it is done and mulch drained off.
Now add some fine tuning, whatever you have of:
kelp, selenium tablets, soy isoflavones, vitamin B, beet root powder, etc.
Pour this in pans and let dry.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

The kelp contains auxins- a rooting hormones

And cytokinins to signal cell division

Seeing how fast these break down in dry and oxygen rich conditions, I'd like to know where that information came from.
Not trying to start an argument but I'm curious who put that information out there and how they got that information.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Seeing how fast these break down in dry and oxygen rich conditions, I'd like to know where that information came from.
Not trying to start an argument but I'm curious who put that information out there and how they got that information.

I did the same course as @cmeg1 following his recommendation and i got it from there

obviously not lab based and only anecdotal but I have noticed a massive improvement in my JBP seedlings number of roots from germination vs a single tap root and also huge difference in vigour of lower buds vs apical dominance as the seedlings grow through up to 4 years since using the biostimulants

I always put this down to the auxins and cytokinins as described by Harley Smith in the course

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I did the same course as @cmeg1 following his recommendation and i got it from there

obviously not lab based and only anecdotal but I have noticed a massive improvement in my JBP seedlings number of roots from germination vs a single tap root and also huge difference in vigour of lower buds vs apical dominance as the seedlings grow through up to 4 years since using the biostimulants

I always put this down to the auxins and cytokinins as described by Harley Smith in the course

Thanks, I've read it somewhere too but I never found the source of that information. I'll see if I can do a deep dive and reel in where this information comes from.
IBA-K is bound to potassium so it doesn't rapidly break down but when I was doing research on auxins I kept running into figures that showed it had a half-life in water that was amazingly short: 4-16 hours.
Kelp is wonderful stuff and I like it, but I'd like to double check the truth before I go around and tell people it contains things that should chemically have broken down during the drying process.
Curious!

 

[nuttiest]

Thanks, I've read it somewhere too but I never found the source of that information. I'll see if I can do a deep dive and reel in where this information comes from.
IBA-K is bound to potassium so it doesn't rapidly break down but when I was doing research on auxins I kept running into figures that showed it had a half-life in water that was amazingly short: 4-16 hours.
Kelp is wonderful stuff and I like it, but I'd like to double check the truth before I go around and tell people it contains things that should chemically have broken down during the drying process.
Curious!

Which drying process? Are you comparing to using fresh wet kelp? I will have to try that sometime

 

[penumbra]

I foliar feed many dozens of tropical plants with full strength Miracle Grow about every other week.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Found some:


10 micrograms per Kg is about 100 times less than what you would find in common baking flour.
I'll keep looking next week to find some more sources.

 

[nuttiest]

10 micrograms per Kg is about 100 times less than what you would find in common baking flour.
I'll keep looking next week to find some more sources.

terrible... but maybe the best source for hormones is fresh stuff. People chop weed roots, aloe, ginger, coconut milk and put into the blender. It probably could dilute a lot more than the stuff that is purchased.

 

[nuttiest]

Here is the poor thing in front of the next 2 smaller variety to try out. I dunked it for 5 minutes completely underwater in dilute miracle grow and mounted on a forked branch instead so it it more upright. Tomorrow it will get the 'hormone' treated water.

 

[Nera]

Here is the poor thing in front of the next 2 smaller variety to try out. I dunked it for 5 minutes completely underwater in dilute miracle grow and mounted on a forked branch instead so it it more upright. Tomorrow it will get the 'hormone' treated water.

Let us know how it goes, fingers crossed!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Here is the poor thing in front of the next 2 smaller variety to try out. I dunked it for 5 minutes completely underwater in dilute miracle grow and mounted on a forked branch instead so it it more upright. Tomorrow it will get the 'hormone' treated water.

Maybe see if you can pack some moss or coco fiber around those roots so it has some water retention up there. It might just be a tad bit dry up there.