Buy a tree in Japan, leave it there

[apic92]

Hi folks,
I am doing some research about the Bonsai market and thought I would ask the community here to discussed some topics. Open-ended question to avoid any bias

Here is the first one.
I am wondering what do you guys think about buying a tree at a Japanese bonsai garden, in Japan obvioulsy, and leave it there for the master to maintain it?

 

[vp999]

Are you ever going to bring it home?

 

[Srt8madness]

This would only make sense in the "so much money you're trying to find ways to spend it" way. Sort of like storing fine art in a bunker. Otherwise, what's the point? There is a class of bonsai owners who take their trees to professionals for maintenance, but keep possession of it.

 

[namnhi]

Hi folks,
I am doing some research about the Bonsai market and thought I would ask the community here to discussed some topics. Open-ended question to avoid any bias

Here is the first one.
I am wondering what do you guys think about buying a tree at a Japanese bonsai garden, in Japan obvioulsy, and leave it there for the master to maintain it?

NOT for me!

 

[Deci22]

Sounds expensive, and when would you get to actually enjoy the tree?

 

[bdmatt]

I'd only do something like that if I lived in Japan or if I'm there often enough. Don't really see the point in it. Would probably drain the wallet having someone else care for it. Plus, you wouldn't get the experiences of taking care of the tree nor the joy of having it in your garden.

 

[apic92]

Thanks for your replies so far. This is very helpful!

I understand that we can think of different categories of hobbyists:
- People who don't see that as interesting because they want the tree with them, at home, to enjoy it and learn with it. @namnhi, @bdmatt, I assume that what you meant?
- People who are pursuing financial motives, such as investment, and,
- People who like bonsai for beauty of the art but don't know necessarily enough about maintaining them, like art collectors (@Srt8madness).
I was wondering also about people looking to enter Japan shows like the Kokufu with a tree they own. Can only do this if the tree is in Japan, don't you think?

Now, let's say you do buy that tree. What do you think about possible motives to do such a thing?

@Deci22 you are raising a good point, when to enjoy it? Do we only enjoy bonsai by seeing them physically?

@vp999, what if you can't? what if you can? permanentely or not?

 

[vp999]

I would not do it, I will only enjoy a bonsai by physically seeing it growing and changing throughout the seasons. But thats just me.

 

[eugenev2]

Thanks for your replies so far. This is very helpful!

I understand that we can think of different categories of hobbyists:
- People who don't see that as interesting because they want the tree with them, at home, to enjoy it and learn with it. @namnhi, @bdmatt, I assume that what you meant?
- People who are pursuing financial motives, such as investment, and,
- People who like bonsai for beauty of the art but don't know necessarily enough about maintaining them, like art collectors (@Srt8madness).
I was wondering also about people looking to enter Japan shows like the Kokufu with a tree they own. Can only do this if the tree is in Japan, don't you think?

Now, let's say you do buy that tree. What do you think about possible motives to do such a thing?

@Deci22 you are raising a good point, when to enjoy it? Do we only enjoy bonsai by seeing them physically?

@vp999, what if you can't? what if you can? permanentely or not?

I think your research is aimed at a very small percentage of people out there and i specifically did not mention bonsai community here, ie the affluent enough who could fly to japan say on a monthly basis to go view their tree. In my opinion the majority of people in the bonsai community would see this as unachievable (as this would be realistically out of our means) and as mentioned, when would we be able to appreciate it? The other portion of the community lets call them bonsai hobbyist would not want someone else to grow the tree for them, as if i draw a comparison to a person buying art, does this make them a artist? a hobbyist? art appreciative? or does it make them a investor/collector?

For me personally this concept is similar to paying to name a star, as you can provided me with a little certificate and pictures, but if i cannot take it home with me, is there any real proof i own it?

 

[Potawatomi13]

I would not do it, I will only enjoy a bonsai by physically seeing it growing and changing throughout the seasons. But thats just me.

Not just you. Personally, also for most I suspect genuine enjoyment is in watching grow, caring for, learning how to do many things in developing not just pawning off on someone else to do it all and observing on rare occasions. Personally is therapeutic hobby.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

I want to be able to look at my tree, touch it and work on it.
Besides that I don't think I can own a Kokufu tree because those would be too expensive.

 

[Deci22]

Yes, physically, The most enjoyable part for me is the development and growing, the caring of the tree. It is very relaxing and rewarding. I'm sure there is a small wealthy niche, that are more collectors of Bonsai, that might enjoy that idea but as for myself, the things I enjoy would be gone.

 

[minkes]

I’d rather have poor tree, but see it developing under my hands than have expensive tree and leave it at Japan.

 

[rockm]

Hi folks,
I am doing some research about the Bonsai market and thought I would ask the community here to discussed some topics. Open-ended question to avoid any bias

Here is the first one.
I am wondering what do you guys think about buying a tree at a Japanese bonsai garden, in Japan obvioulsy, and leave it there for the master to maintain it?

Doug Paul, who owns the spectacular Kennett Collection of bonsai, has trees in Japan, as well as in the U.S.

The Kennett Collection Reduction Sale

The Kennett Collection is the private bonsai collection of bonsai connoisseur Doug Paul who has created the finest bonsai collection in the United States. His fine eye and love of bonsai (and kopi)…

valavanisbonsaiblog.com

American Bonsai – The Kennett Collection | Bonsai Bark

 

[rockm]

Thanks for your replies so far. This is very helpful!

I understand that we can think of different categories of hobbyists:
- People who don't see that as interesting because they want the tree with them, at home, to enjoy it and learn with it. @namnhi, @bdmatt, I assume that what you meant?
- People who are pursuing financial motives, such as investment, and,
- People who like bonsai for beauty of the art but don't know necessarily enough about maintaining them, like art collectors (@Srt8madness).
I was wondering also about people looking to enter Japan shows like the Kokufu with a tree they own. Can only do this if the tree is in Japan, don't you think?

Now, let's say you do buy that tree. What do you think about possible motives to do such a thing?

@Deci22 you are raising a good point, when to enjoy it? Do we only enjoy bonsai by seeing them physically?

@vp999, what if you can't? what if you can? permanentely or not?

Motives include wanting a very very good tree or buyers looking to wholesale trees for importation to the U.S.--which is hardly a money-making operation for most people, as importing entails a huge risk. Trees have to be bare rooted, fumigated upon entry. Quarantining the trees for two years is also a part of the process. During this, many trees die.

Buying a single bonsai from Japan is mostly done, from what I have seen, is done because the buyer wants a very good tree that isn't available in the U.S. Some, like Doug Paul, purchase trees in Japan for the prestige of owning very very good trees and competing in Japanese exhibitions. Paul was the first American to enter a tree in the prestigious Kokufu exhibition in Japan.

 

[JudyB]

There are others besides Doug that do have trees that they own kept in Japan, just to be able to show in the Japanese exhibitions.

 

[Nybonsai12]

I told my friends I bought a Ferrari but keep it at the dealership.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I thought I could buy a plant at Lowe's and leave it there for maintenance by not buying it but they went and sold it.
Darn!

 

[NaoTK]

Many people already own trees and leave them for the master to take care of. This is happening in the US and Japan.

If you think of bonsai like competitive horse racing then this idea makes sense

• Own the horse and pay people to maintain it for competition
• meanwhile some hobbyists like to own their (not so nice) horses at home
• some professionals only breed horses and sell them but don't race them

The difference is bonsai does not have the mystique of a rich man's competitive sport purely for showcasing wealth (yet)

 

[Canada Bonsai]

I am wondering what do you guys think about buying a tree at a Japanese bonsai garden, in Japan obvioulsy, and leave it there for the master to maintain it?

As somebody who imports hundreds of bonsai and bonsai material from Japan to Canada every year, this is something I have considered closely and I have been looking for appropriate material for several years.

What do you think about possible motives to do such a thing?

My personal motivation comes from wanting to put a former Kokufu tree into the Montreal Botanical Garden's collection.

I have spoken to several people in Japan about this, and from what I have seen so far there is no financial incentive (in fact, there are guaranteed losses) for buying trees in Japan, paying to have them maintained for several years, paying to put them into Kokufu, and then importing them into Canada to sell here. Even if we look a the most affordable trees that have been displayed in any of the internationally-known exhibitions--so now we are talking shohin from gafu-ten or similar (think $3000USD)--the decreased maintenance fees and shipping costs (due to size of tree) are still far too large to generate much of a profit in North America from what has been offered to me so far. I cannot speak for the situation in Europe.

I understand that we can think of different categories of hobbyists:
- People who don't see that as interesting because they want the tree with them, at home, to enjoy it and learn with it.
- People who are pursuing financial motives, such as investment, and,
- People who like bonsai for beauty of the art but don't know necessarily enough about maintaining them, like art collectors

This service already exists in North America of course -- there are people who keep trees full time at professionals' gardens, never take them home, and visit them at a frequency ranging from often to never. My guess is that some of the people on the 'every 1-3 years' frequency might be the same people who would consider doing this in Japan? This is a very very small percentage of people doing bonsai, I would assume.