Bonsaify Juniper eCourse Suggestions?

[Eric Schrader]

Hey everyone,

I want to get questions and feedback from folks during the main production process of my juniper eCourse. At the moment I've made only 4 videos out of something like 25-30 needed.
The course will start with propagation, then go through roughly 10-15 years of development including how to create a good trunk, positioning branches etc. The goal will be a twisty "yamadori style" juniper similar to ones we have all seen from Japanese shows.

So here are my questions:

1. If you were going to make this course yourself - where do you think you would have the most trouble explaining concepts to the students?
2. Which do you think is a larger challenge:

• Growing and knowing when and what to do (e.g. horticulture)
• Understanding the aesthetic components of the final product and how they are created

3. From a growing perspective what is your biggest challenge with junipers?

For reference, in my signature there is a link to the pine eCourse that I created (there are three free videos anyone can watch plus the structure is publicly visible.)
And attaching a photo of a nice twisty shohin juniper (also used in one of my YT videos.)

Thanks in advance!

 

[JackHammer]

Growing a juniper can be difficult for some and the foliage does not rapidly reflect the watering so getting that balance can be a big challenge.

For styling, and design and the bonsai part, I would recommend breaking the work into seasons ie. Spring repotting, fall wiring, and maybe summer fertilizer management?

I have seen a number of your videos, thanks for all of the content that you put out.

 

[JackHammer]

So backing up on this. As a content creator, you should have a prescriptive methodology for delivering information relating to the course. Of course, you opinion should be the gold standard on the best way to create a curly juniper. I think mirai just does the live shows but doesn't actually explain the thought process from a horticultural or creative standpoint - they get a lot of flack for this. I don't care if it is the Japanese way, it is kinda lazy. If you are doing work, you need to explain why you are making the decisions you are.
Back to the content- this is cliche but "tell a story". It sounds like you are already on this path but you might touch on the life of the tree (horticulture) and also the techniques of a bonsai artist.

 

[pandacular]

Hi Eric, I love your videos! Thanks for opening up to feedback and suggestions.

I don't have enough experience to give insight on the first and last question, but as a novice student, I think I can address #2. I think one of the challenges of horticulture is that there are so many different things people are told--many are correct, even if different conflicting, but just as many are not--that it's hard to keep things straight. Providing some sort of high level overview I think would be critical, particularly things like when to apply certain techniques, both across the growing season and across the timeline of a trees development. Another challenge is that often beginners are told to look for signs in the tree (i. e., repot when buds are starting to break) which they may not have the experience to pickup. Sure, you can tell a student what to look for, and I'm by no means saying that following signs in the tree is the incorrect way to teach, but I for one need to experience it on my own trees to get it.

For aesthetics, I think if you have a relatively narrow goal, as you seem to for this course, you can fairly easily explain the result that is targeted. The tricky part is certainly seeing the intermediate steps, such as "how long should a sacrifice branch get really?" or "what's the difference between a beautiful and ugly bend?" I think technique is easier for some to teach becuase it can be somewhat objective, but technique without aesthetics is usually wasted.

Looking forward to catching the upcoming Pacific Bonsai Expo! Your work on that is very critical to the west coast community.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I would start by defining who your audience is. All the rest of your content will flow from this definition. Are you targeting bonsai beginners? Intermediate students who want a deep dive on one genus? Or do you want to prioritize advanced topics? It is very difficult to create a course that is all things to all people...

In answer to your questions:
(1) Explaining the art of the tree - how to take what the tree gives you, visualize a design, and then develop the tree into that design.
(2) The bigger challenge is understanding the aesthetic components, because that is what bonsai is. Otherwise you would just be making a horticulture video about how to care for a juniper in a container. The more advanced your audience, the more important this aspect of your course will be.
(3) I consider junipers to be pretty easy trees, all things considered. The only challenge I am currently having is that since I moved from the West Coast, I am experiencing some Phomopsis tip blight, which I never experienced in SoCal with its dry conditions. It always seems to occur in the hottest weeks of August, after a particularly wet and warm period of weather. Depending on your species, you may also want to discuss needle versus scale foliage, since that is something relatively unique to junipers that can be impacted by how you develop/maintain your tree.

 

[Gabler]

Since others have answered your question, I'd like to add that it's important to see progressions. What does the tree look like a day after working it? A week? A month? A year? I recognize that's not always feasible, but to the extent it's possible, updates are important.

For example, when I started learning about bonsai as a kid, I thought the goal was to keep them very sparse all the time because all the books I read were filled with pictures of recently-styled trees that hadn't had time to fill in with foliage. I killed a lot of trees by keeping them extremely sparse and removing almost all of the foliage, constantly.

The most valuable resource on this website is all the progression threads which, for the first time, gave me a glimpse of what a tree should look like over time as it develops.

 

[BrightsideB]

I enjoyed watching your video’s. I think you also explained your approach well. Assuming your primary audience is beginner to intermediate. I agree with @Gabler about the importance of progression’s. I think a lot of people learning primarily at home have difficulty connecting the dots and space between the years of development. And what to expect. I think more long term, regularly in depth progressions (photo’s and some dialogue about any changes) would be an asset. I think a lot of important questions would be answered that way for the most part.

 

[TrevorLarsen]

Hey Eric, your videos are great. I just bought you Shohin Black pine ecorse today and I’m loving how you put it together. I highly recommend it, and I’m excited for this one to be finished.

 

[Eric Schrader]

So backing up on this. As a content creator, you should have a prescriptive methodology for delivering information relating to the course. Of course, you opinion should be the gold standard on the best way to create a curly juniper. I think mirai just does the live shows but doesn't actually explain the thought process from a horticultural or creative standpoint - they get a lot of flack for this. I don't care if it is the Japanese way, it is kinda lazy. If you are doing work, you need to explain why you are making the decisions you are.
Back to the content- this is cliche but "tell a story". It sounds like you are already on this path but you might touch on the life of the tree (horticulture) and also the techniques of a bonsai artist.

It's interesting that I always hear about Mirai Live but not much about BonsaiU or Bonsai Empire. I approach my eCourses from the perspective that none of these guys know much about growing trees from scratch. It's a shame because so many people have gone to Japan to study bonsai, but nobody has done it at a production nursery (that I know of.) Creating trees from scratch and refining and maintaining older trees are so different .

Trevor - glad you're enjoying the pine eCourse. I'll be doing a few updates and errata later this fall.

 

[Gabler]

It's interesting that I always hear about Mirai Live but not much about BonsaiU or Bonsai Empire. I approach my eCourses from the perspective that none of these guys know much about growing trees from scratch. It's a shame because so many people have gone to Japan to study bonsai, but nobody has done it at a production nursery (that I know of.) Creating trees from scratch and refining and maintaining older trees are so different .

Trevor - glad you're enjoying the pine eCourse. I'll be doing a few updates and errata later this fall.

I've found your channel useful for precisely that reason. I'm growing all of my trees from scratch. As a twenty-something with a mountain of student loan debt, paying post-COVID housing prices, I just don't have the means to buy developed trees, let alone nice pots, but I do have the years (I hope) to grow my own trees from scratch, and I enjoy it because bonsai is about the process as much as the end result.

 

[roberthu]

I think mirai just does the live shows but doesn't actually explain the thought process from a horticultural or creative standpoint - they get a lot of flack for this. I don't care if it is the Japanese way, it is kinda lazy. If you are doing work, you need to explain why you are making the decisions you are.

Interesting statement. I have been a Mirai subscriber for 3 years and the biggest reason I stay with Mirai is Ryan always try to explain the why, from both horticultural and design perspective. Some people actually dislike Mirai because the videos are so long for this very reason.

 

[pandacular]

It's interesting that I always hear about Mirai Live but not much about BonsaiU or Bonsai Empire. I approach my eCourses from the perspective that none of these guys know much about growing trees from scratch.

It's true, this is perhaps the most common complaint I see about the Bonsai Empire courses, and it's one I share. Mirai had for a time an instructor based out of Florida (David, I think?) who was a grower, and I found that content interesting, though there was very little of it. One of Bjorn's more popular videos is his maple clump, which is one of the only ones I've seen about growing material. To their credit, I think they're trying but they just don't have the experience or perspective to work like a beginner (see Ryan Neil's crazy blue rug nursery juniper transformation)

It's definitely a good niche to work into, especially as someone who's selling great starter material. We have a much different market than Japan and working from nursery material and seedlings is much more necessary in the US.

 

[Scorpius]

If this is for beginners I'd focus on how to just care for a juniper and get it healthy enough to handle styling and wiring, because if it isn't healthy enough these things will kill them. I think a video on just how to choose a proper substrate and how to water properly would help immensely as well.

 

[Gabler]

If this is for beginners I'd focus on how to just care for a juniper and get it healthy enough to handle styling and wiring, because if it isn't healthy enough these things will kill them. I think a video on just how to choose a proper substrate and how to water properly would help immensely as well.

I feel like there's already way too much of that floating around. The market is saturated. It would just be white noise. What's lacking on YouTube is detailed information on the earlier stages of tree development.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I didn't read much of the other comments, but generally speaking what I kept googling for myself in the beginning was:
- when to prune
- when to do maintenance
- how to tighten foliage (and how long it takes)
- what's the best time to graft? And what's the second best time? How to treat those grafts, what makes them succesful.
- how to propagate them in northern Europe. Because my cuttings stand still for a year and then die in the next. Zero roots.
- different approaches to shari work; cut a small section and a larger later on, or do it all at once?
- how much root work should be done and how often?
- if it's not growing, does it need more time or does it need something else?
- how far can you let wire bite in?

If I'd be able to have had that in a document before I figured most of this out, I would have paid 25 dollars for it.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Hey everyone,

I want to get questions and feedback from folks during the main production process of my juniper eCourse. At the moment I've made only 4 videos out of something like 25-30 needed.
The course will start with propagation, then go through roughly 10-15 years of development including how to create a good trunk, positioning branches etc. The goal will be a twisty "yamadori style" juniper similar to ones we have all seen from Japanese shows.

So here are my questions:

1. If you were going to make this course yourself - where do you think you would have the most trouble explaining concepts to the students?

First of all I would like to thank you for asking our opinions. That’s fairly novel. Also you are doing something very few bonsai professionals in my experience have done…. Create a systematic step by step course teaching how to develop a spectacular bonsai from scratch. From some of the post above I can see some pretty great ideas.

As a long long time science teacher explaining concepts is pretty straightforward…. show, tell and ensure students have an opportunity to use the material and practice when taking the course.

So please make a reasonable attempt to have enough stock to back up the eCourse. Of course, folks can always buy material and propagate… (yet it seems most folks interested would rather skip that step ).

The key concepts mostly have to do with what to do next and show how to do each step of two levels, horticulture and styling concepts. Step by step.

Similar to what you did in the JBP course… yet that was single subject. If all you are intending to only focus only on shimpaku, then at least have a segment on the different types and cultivars.

2. Which do you think is a larger challenge:

• Growing and knowing when and what to do (e.g. horticulture
• Understanding the aesthetic components of the final product and how they are created

The latter, so a segment on your ideas with multiple examples, perhaps with photos outside your practice might be wise.

• 
  3. From a growing perspective what is your biggest challenge with junipers?

Not much for us. Junipers are relatively easy to grow and maintain. So feeling them from growing out of style is the only major challenge. So a segment on this would be timely.

Others have mentioned grafting, agree on that.

For reference, in my signature there is a link to the pine eCourse that I created (there are three free videos anyone can watch plus the structure is publicly visible.)

Reviewed the JBP eCourse. Only thing to think about is to mix things up. Most instructors appear to think it‘s easier to explain things by mainly telling personally. Think less about showing yourself and talking and more about adding other dimensions, step by step outline/checklist, directions on diagrams, possibly more video and continue showing a variety of samples

From years of teaching experience I know how much work this will take.

Again, I appreciate your efforts!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Eric Schrader]

I didn't read much of the other comments, but generally speaking what I kept googling for myself in the beginning was:
- when to prune
- when to do maintenance
- how to tighten foliage (and how long it takes)
- what's the best time to graft? And what's the second best time? How to treat those grafts, what makes them succesful.
- how to propagate them in northern Europe. Because my cuttings stand still for a year and then die in the next. Zero roots.
- different approaches to shari work; cut a small section and a larger later on, or do it all at once?
- how much root work should be done and how often?
- if it's not growing, does it need more time or does it need something else?
- how far can you let wire bite in?

If I'd be able to have had that in a document before I figured most of this out, I would have paid 25 dollars for it.

A good set of queries. I'll think about this.
For the cuttings - did you use bottom heat? In a cold environment I think that would be very important.

 

[bwaynef]

1. If you were going to make this course yourself - where do you think you would have the most trouble explaining concepts to the students?
2. Which do you think is a larger challenge:

• Growing and knowing when and what to do (e.g. horticulture)
• Understanding the aesthetic components of the final product and how they are created

As far as horticulture in general, the importance of vigorous growth ...and over-growth for development was something I downplayed the importance of. Also, the aesthetic ramifications of this growth means that there will be awkward/ugly pre-teen stages these trees need to progress through.

To answer 2, I'd say the 2nd option, particularly the "how they are created".

3. From a growing perspective what is your biggest challenge with junipers?

I spent years with poor growth on my conifers until I managed to provide a full-sun (ish) area for them. With enough light provided, most of my challenges growing them went away.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

A good set of queries. I'll think about this.
For the cuttings - did you use bottom heat? In a cold environment I think that would be very important.

No, I've used solar heat in summer and no heat in winter. But I'll give it a go. Weird thing is that everything but chinese junipers strike easily.
I'm even going as far as ziplock bags in the dark to see what comes out of it.
Thus far, a huge caterpillar that ate a bunch of foliage and some white fungus.

Which brings us back to timing and application; bottom heat, summer and winter? Only in winter? Day and night?

 

[snowman04]

As a beginner, I can only stress the importance of watering and sunlight levels for junipers. I killed three of your finest starters by trying to grow them in a southern window in the house...

I watched a few of your videos as well as others and have come a long way in a year. All my other starters are doing well. Keep up the great job!