Black Cherry-Big and small

Giga

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Virginia beach, VA
USDA Zone
7-8
You don't see this species very much and so far I like the species. The big one came up last year when I found a sweetgum and has been doing well every since. It went into the ground after collecting and this year I put it in a simple pot. the small one pipped up in my yard last year and this year I simple yanked it out of the ground and put it in a pot. They are both doing really well.

Some carving will need to be done on the big one as there are a few dead branches and the chop will need to be worked.
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Small one is taking off
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@Giga ...will it then bloom at some point with it being a cherry?

As Rockm said the flowers are very different and you have to let the growth go uncheked to bloom
Googled it...I have one in bloom in our ravine. @rockm ...what characteristics causes them to not work well with the bonsai techniques?


Black cherry doesn't bloom like a typical cherry. It bears flowers on spikes, similar to a wisteria's, but smaller. They are a pain in the ass as bonsai :)

That's a good question as I found they back bud well, very hard wood rot resistant, grow very stong. I like them thus far
 
I was asked via PM a while ago about Prunus Serotina (black cherry). Here's my response:

"I got fed up with Black Cherry. It behaves very weirdly when containerized. And FWIW, I've only seen a handful of the billions of them around here worth collecting. Twisty-turny trunks are easy to find, but they tend to have no taper and monotonous vanilla, gun metal colored bark. I have found a very VERY, VERY few that have extremely nice taper and amazing, cracked, pine-like bark. Those are the ones I worked with. Once you have seen a black cherry with plated, old bark, you look at all the others as not worth the trouble

And they are considerable trouble.

Note I said "worked" with. They are easy to collect, but as you have seen, once in a container, they start getting weird.

Like any fruit tree, they are susceptible to fungus, borers and insect attacks. My oldest one was a great little tree, until the borers moved in. They chewed on it for a decade and killed off large sections of it. It was also targeted every year by tent caterpillars (just like every other black cherry near me). Those damn things could defoliate it in an afternoon while I was at work. Happened a couple of times. That defoliation didn't really increase ramification or produce smaller leaves. It mostly just weakened the tree, killing off twigs and branches.

The tree rooted like mad, but the roots it put out in bonsai soil where extremely fine and tiny. So fine, that they would break off in handful sized chunks at repotting. that made repotting a problem, as those chunks fell away easily.

I won't keep another one unless I can find another exceptional trunk like the one I nursed for 15 years. They are a pain in the ass. Better species out there."

I'd also add to this that pruning them after they've started putting on extension growth can cause dieback on branches, so hard pruning has to be done in early spring before bud break. Also, the tendency for die back from trimming growth means the tree pretty much should be left to its own devices until the following spring to avoid losing branching. While this quirk may be variable, and results may vary, I learned not to mess with trimming in the spring lest the damn tree drop an entire branch...

Additionally, they also "bleed" gummy messy, gross-looking sap from large wounds. That production of gummy mess can quadruple if the weather is wet. The tree can develop large mounds of gum in a couple of days, which I think is aimed at repelling insect invaders like borers. Be prepared, the first time you see it, it looks like some kind of fungal apocalypse has taken over your tree...It isn't and the tree doesn't seem to be any the worse for it, but if borers caused it, they will remain, only further up inside their burrows.
 
Giga, I have so many dope black cherry to choose from. So much negative info on them out there on them. I was going to mess with it again this year but decided not to, but I did chop and mark several good ones for the future.

I had one a few years ago, and also noticed it buds back well, and takes to collection as well. it just gets blasted with bugs and fungus, but man I have a field full of great material available to me. one tip ive read somewhere is that the chinese and japanese bare root wash collected prunus due to the fungus inherent in the native soil. I think my plan will be to take that a step further and fumigate the washed bare roots upon collection. I have some big ones in my yard, and they get hit with them nematode and fungus and bugs.. but I spray one and not the other right next to it and guess what.. the one I spray is completely fine. after several years of monitoring this test. I've also noticed that the very similar choke cherry, would be a much better specimen for bonsai judging my the flowers, leaf shape, bark color, but there just isn't as many cool ones around me.

definitely interested in any notes you may find for cultivating these. It just doesn't make sense that basically any other prunus can be bonsai.. but not these. im just not buying. Even Jack Wikle, who is about 80 some years old been doing bonsai for 50 years in my region, who I speak with from time to time about difficult species, says he has never known anyone to keep them alive in a pot.
 
Giga, I have so many dope black cherry to choose from. So much negative info on them out there on them. I was going to mess with it again this year but decided not to, but I did chop and mark several good ones for the future.

I had one a few years ago, and also noticed it buds back well, and takes to collection as well. it just gets blasted with bugs and fungus, but man I have a field full of great material available to me. one tip ive read somewhere is that the chinese and japanese bare root wash collected prunus due to the fungus inherent in the native soil. I think my plan will be to take that a step further and fumigate the washed bare roots upon collection. I have some big ones in my yard, and they get hit with them nematode and fungus and bugs.. but I spray one and not the other right next to it and guess what.. the one I spray is completely fine. after several years of monitoring this test. I've also noticed that the very similar choke cherry, would be a much better specimen for bonsai judging my the flowers, leaf shape, bark color, but there just isn't as many cool ones around me.

definitely interested in any notes you may find for cultivating these. It just doesn't make sense that basically any other prunus can be bonsai.. but not these. im just not buying. Even Jack Wikle, who is about 80 some years old been doing bonsai for 50 years in my region, who I speak with from time to time about difficult species, says he has never known anyone to keep them alive in a pot.
Like I said, I collected and kept on one for 15 years in a pot.

Funny how simple facts get taken as "negative info." I only recited some of the issues I had with them in my rather lengthy struggle with one as a bonsai. Your mileage may vary of course. Fungal problems were about five items down my list of stuff to worry about. Pruning issues and insect problems were at the top.

The species can be good bonsai. I enjoyed my tree very much. It was just extremely frustrating that it had so many issues. Losing a branch that took seven years to create because the tree is prone to "starting over" if disturbed is not a great thing in bonsai practice.
 
no im not saying just your info, I was the one who pmed Rockm FYI

I've collected negative info from several sources haha, my personal data included, you have provided the most detailed, and I appreciate that.
 
Some trees are easier to turn into bonsai than others, doesn't mean impossible, just means more work, more time, and lower probability of a successful outcome. What is success? Up to you to decide, if you enjoy the tree and the process, that is one measure, a ribbon or award at a show is another. I have never seen a black cherry or choke cherry get an award at the MBS show in August at the Chicago Botanic Garden. And I attend nearly every year for the last 30 years.

Actually, the genus Prunus has a fair number of species that do not make good bonsai, and a few that are excellent. Obviously P. mume and spinosa are excellent for bonsai, though Ume in particular has its difficulties. P. spinsoa, the Sloe Plum or Blackthorn is quite nice as bonsai. The culinary peaches P. persicaria, and flowering almond and the choke cherries and black cherries all have poor track records as bonsai. Some of the culinary and wild plums have good track records.

So, some is easier to bonsai than others, all a matter of the material in front of you and whether or not you enjoy the effort and time and the frustrations of working with them.
 
Maybe I can pioneer some thing tree's for everyone. I have a regular anti everything bad routine that should keep a lot of the stuff away. They where free, so I can't complain. I just make sure I keep everyone updated on how this does
 
I hear ya brother! I am growing east coast natives like you, cherry, beech, pitch pine, all sorts! I guess that's why it's called Bonsai nut!:)
 
Funny how simple facts get taken as "negative info."

Whatever it Is RockM, thanks for sharing it...

I just want you To know..
That while it may seem I deaf ear your information on ERC and the like....

With every read it becomes more clear...

Remembering your words makes it easy to stack rank, and better narrow down my collection!

Thanks for Putting up with Me Rock!

Sorce
 
Maybe I can pioneer some thing tree's for everyone. I have a regular anti everything bad routine that should keep a lot of the stuff away. They where free, so I can't complain. I just make sure I keep everyone updated on how this does
Whatever it Is RockM, thanks for sharing it...

I just want you To know..
That while it may seem I deaf ear your information on ERC and the like....

With every read it becomes more clear...

Remembering your words makes it easy to stack rank, and better narrow down my collection!

Thanks for Putting up with Me Rock!

Sorce
Not putting up with you. Not really...;-)

When I post stuff that seems like its biased, it is. I wouldn't post stuff on ERC and black cherry and the like if I hadn't worked with them. They are frustrating.

The native species "pioneer" route is a well-traveled path. The thought that you're paving the way for others with difficult or "untried" species isn't accurate. Chances are the species you're working with HAS been tried before, obviously with some exceptions. For the most part, however, most of the more obvious stuff has been tried in the last 40 years. I fancied myself a "bonsai pioneer" when I first worked with ERC and other stuff 20 years ago. Wasn't true. The guys who had been working with the same stuff for years didn't say much to stop me from wasting my time.
 
meant on here since there are no threads that I can find on black cherry
 
I have black cherry all over my yard and enjoy it's fruit often as it is delicious but I never have any luck with transplanting them for some reason

Looks good and will be awesome if eventually when it is to where U want it that it can bare its little fruits as well
 
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