Hello, I'm new on this website and I am beginning my second year of bonsai. I have some more traditional pre bonsais I'm working on as far as juniper's, jades, and Japanese maples But as you can guess, there are a million in one different examples online i can scroll through for inspiration and instructions. I have a plethora of Eastern Red cedar at my disposal and so I've really been putting in a lot of practice with transplanting and wiring etc. when I'm new at something I like to get tons of practice before really doing the actual new hobby If my inexperience is going to shoot me in the foot and waste me a lot of time and money. As I said I do have some traditional species that are currently in the ground growing. I'm too scared to do much to them until I've really worked out my kinks on these free eastern Red cedars. That being said, I honestly do enjoy what I've been able to accomplish in one full year with these cedars. Okay now for my dilemma. As you can see in the pictures I've included, the first three are Eastern red cedar. The fourth one would be an old gold juniper. when I'm working these eastern red cedars, I keep finding myself in a formal/informal upright design and I really need some help visualizing myself out of the same style. Time and space is not an issue for me. And I can even afford to take some big risk and accidentally kill one If I can Just see what steps to take or even where I'm going. I am in Central Southern Ohio. (Hour south of Columbus) I know sometimes there can be rules on forums etc. So please forgive me if I've done something wrong. This is my first post. Thank you for any and all pointers in advance!
Beginning of 2nd year and could use some design tips
- Thread starter ruedinni
- Start date
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
I don't know eastern red cedar but seem to recall some opinions here stating they make very poor bonsai. I may be getting confused with another Eastern species so happy for someone to correct.
That doesn't mean you can't experiment with techniques. They should react much as other junipers to wiring, bending and most other things we do. Just not very good bonsai at the end of it I believe.
It's hard to visualise when the trees are planted in the ground but you should try not to see then oriented as they currently are. Tilt sideways can turn an upright tree into a slanting trunk. Tilt a bit more and you have semi cascade or cascade. Tilt a full 90 degrees and lay the trunk on the soil and you have a possible raft style tree.
Trunks with branches mostly on one side can become windswept style with branches all growing one direction. The last tree might suit windswept or semi cascade style as most growth is already on one side of the trunk.
That doesn't mean you can't experiment with techniques. They should react much as other junipers to wiring, bending and most other things we do. Just not very good bonsai at the end of it I believe.
It's hard to visualise when the trees are planted in the ground but you should try not to see then oriented as they currently are. Tilt sideways can turn an upright tree into a slanting trunk. Tilt a bit more and you have semi cascade or cascade. Tilt a full 90 degrees and lay the trunk on the soil and you have a possible raft style tree.
Trunks with branches mostly on one side can become windswept style with branches all growing one direction. The last tree might suit windswept or semi cascade style as most growth is already on one side of the trunk.
Michael P
Omono
Bonsai people tend to get worked up over Eastern red cedar Juniperus virginiana. It is difficult to get and keep "mature" scale foliage. So, treat them like a needle juniper. I've seen several that I thought were quite good.
Part of the reason you have difficulty getting away from formal upright is because that is their natural growth habit. The first tree is a potential raft. Look up that style. You have three "trunks" already. The one on the right needs to be shortened so that it is clearly secondary to the one on the left. Encourage that little one in the middle to grow.
Put some bigger wire on the trunk of the second one and bend it into an interesting shape. Be bold! The third could be developed as a strict formal upright.
Since you have lots of free ERC have fun and experiment.
Part of the reason you have difficulty getting away from formal upright is because that is their natural growth habit. The first tree is a potential raft. Look up that style. You have three "trunks" already. The one on the right needs to be shortened so that it is clearly secondary to the one on the left. Encourage that little one in the middle to grow.
Put some bigger wire on the trunk of the second one and bend it into an interesting shape. Be bold! The third could be developed as a strict formal upright.
Since you have lots of free ERC have fun and experiment.
bwaynef
Masterpiece
I would avoid J. virginiana, but since you already have them, you may as well learn something from them. Remove all the wire you have on them, then put thick wire along the trunks and bend 'til your heart is content. Your heart may not be content until you've put 3 strands of thick aluminum on those trunks to get the bends that make your heart content. Bend and twist. That'll add interest to the trunkline, but also will distribute the branches around the canopy. Presently, they look very 2-dimensional with branches alternating left and right, and none front or back.
Once you're satisfied with the trunkline, wire the branches. Try to avoid crossing wires, make sure to anchor the thinner wires to the thicker wires, and wire 2 branches with each wire. There will be a few exceptions, but challenge yourself to do better while you're learning. (There's also a good tutorial on Craftsy.). Good juniper branches tend to angle down at the point they connect to the trunk. That will decrease the width of the tree considerably. Try to situate the branches so that the ones above don't shade the ones below.
ERC/J.virginiana are difficult trees. There've been some that look ok, but they usually have a lot more going for them trunk-wise than anything you've posted. Make sure your expectations are realistic for what this material is capable of producing. Your time may be better spent in looking for better material.
Once you're satisfied with the trunkline, wire the branches. Try to avoid crossing wires, make sure to anchor the thinner wires to the thicker wires, and wire 2 branches with each wire. There will be a few exceptions, but challenge yourself to do better while you're learning. (There's also a good tutorial on Craftsy.). Good juniper branches tend to angle down at the point they connect to the trunk. That will decrease the width of the tree considerably. Try to situate the branches so that the ones above don't shade the ones below.
ERC/J.virginiana are difficult trees. There've been some that look ok, but they usually have a lot more going for them trunk-wise than anything you've posted. Make sure your expectations are realistic for what this material is capable of producing. Your time may be better spent in looking for better material.
Bowhuntmuledeer
Sapling
I know people don’t like em, but I have a few! I can practice and learn with them, so I understand how they’re respond to some abuse. I’ll add some photos! The first one I dug up spring if 21. In summer ‘23 two years later I carved a trough in the deadwood, split the trunk and secured it in place. Never skipped a beat. I trimmed it back some last summer, that’s the lsecind pic of it. I haven’t done any management on it this year, except spray em for Apple rust. The second one I tried to mimic a video where a guy splits and twists up a juniper, fell way short of what he was capable of, but learned something! I also have another that I cut a twisting Shari in this spring but I don’t have any pictures of it just now. As for inspiration maybe get some bigger ones collected, break the top off, or plant em at an angle. Otherwise just look at gnarly junipers anywhere and try to move something in that direction!
Bowhuntmuledeer
Sapling
Had to add the aforementioned photos in another post. It’s still alive! I’ll try and continue moving it onwards in its journey in the coming years. Maybe shoulda just stopped after the trunk split, that’s the most appealing look I think! Last pic is where it’s at now, kinda. I got a lot of twist out of that piece, but lost a good part of the outermost foliage in the process.
RoadManDenDron
Chumono
OK i notice your wire is fairly thin and starting higher up the trunk,
Use thicker gauge wire and poke it right deep into the soil near the trunk and wire all the way up the trunk
Your current wire will not hold a trunk in position
It's also good practice that all of the wire you place on a tree should be connected, as in touching another bit of wire, that is touching another bit of wire and it's all one big wiring instead of a little here and a little there
One bend at a time put movement into the trunk so there is a branch on the outside of the bend, move in all directions
When you're cleaning out these trees, try and clean from the outside, in
That way you have branches with foliage closer to the trunk
Use thicker gauge wire and poke it right deep into the soil near the trunk and wire all the way up the trunk
Your current wire will not hold a trunk in position
It's also good practice that all of the wire you place on a tree should be connected, as in touching another bit of wire, that is touching another bit of wire and it's all one big wiring instead of a little here and a little there
One bend at a time put movement into the trunk so there is a branch on the outside of the bend, move in all directions
When you're cleaning out these trees, try and clean from the outside, in
That way you have branches with foliage closer to the trunk
RJG2
Omono
A great way to start getting a handle on the design aspect is De Groot's Principles of Bonsai Design.
stonelantern.com
Principles of Bonsai Design
This upgraded 2nd edition of Dave De Groot's masterpiece features superior organization and content, including easily accessible how-to graphics, design and easy to follow well written text. Everything you need to develop and advance your bonsai understanding and skills. And it's significantly...
stonelantern.com
Aww thank you all very much for the info! Does anyone know how much foliage I can remove before it kills it? I always feel myself holding back with evergreens even when I clearly know I don't want some material. I know with deciduous trees I can do truck chops in winter down to the lowest branch with foliage but evergreens have me confused on how much I can remove
Oh and I definitely was thinking raft with the crazy twins but I'm not entirely sure how to get it to root underneath. Do I partially bury the bottom part of that horizontal trunk or does it even matter if it Roots underneath? Kind of confused on that one too.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
Junipers store energy in their foliage. Don't remove any live foliage if plants have been recently worked on. There is time for that when plants are healthy and growing vigorously.
Michael P
Omono
One way is to remove bark and cambium in several places on the underside of the horizontal trunk that is to be buried and dust them with rooting hormone. Then keep that portion buried until roots form at the "windows", often takes several years. If any other new sprouts grow from the buried trunk keep them until you decide on a final number of trunks.
After strong roots grow you can slowly expose the horizontal trunk if you like the way it looks. This normally done so that the tree clearly is a raft and not a group planting.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
This is another one of the bonsai questions that doesn't have a definitive answer.
Foliage removed V survival will depend on who is doing the trimming and what care it gets after. Which sections of the tree are removed can have an influence (removing growing tips is more stressful that removing a similar amount of internal foliage) Will also depend on how healthy the tree was before trimming, what the weather is like and a whole host of other factors.
I'm quite happy to remove up to 75% of foliage from junipers and pines. Sometimes more if I know the tree is strong and it can be cared for after.
50% foliage removed should be fine for most trees under most conditions.
Similar threads
