Beginner question - My first JBP.

[flower_totem]

Hello all,
[Location: Southern Hemisphere. Melbourne, Australia]
My wife gifted this Japanese Black Pine (JPB) to me couple months ago, trunk is about 12mm thick. It had needles all over so I removed most of the bottom needle and cut off a branch on top in order to have a look at the trunk structure. A big mistake I know , I am a bit ahead of myself.
After reading and learning a lot, I figured I'll consult the collective wisdom here.

Thankfully, there's some bud growth at the lower position of the trunk. My initial thought was, let the whole tree grow and have the first bud as its first trunk change of direction movement and continue from there on.

It is actively growing now as it's summer here. I planned to move this into a 40cm wooden grow box next spring (Aug/Sep 2025) and plant it slanted for a couple years, then chop once desired branch thickness achieved.


My question are:
1) Those 3? or 4? branches on the top off the sacrificial branch [PURPLE], shall I cut off a few or leave it as it is ? What is best to divert some energy to the lower bud [GREEN]
2) What do I have to watch out for a better chance of pulling this off ?

Looking at a 3-6 years project, my thought now is a shohin but I'm all ears if there's better plan/suggestion. Not intended for show, happy for a good enough Bonsai, in to enjoy the journey.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: typo

 

[stewarjm192]

you need to let that lower bud develop a bit more before you can count on it
in the fall, I would remove all but few needles on each growing tip of the upper purple section(10-12 needle pairs I recon) and leave the lower buds alone for a few years.

if you haven't been already, begin to fertilize regularly and with a strong application. you need to establish vigor(fertilizer/good watering/sunlight) then balance and direct energy to the lower buds you want to keep through needle plucking and selective pruning, then when you have a strong showing of candle exstension from the lower buds, you can start to remove more from the upper canopy.

 

[flower_totem]

you need to let that lower bud develop a bit more before you can count on it
in the fall, I would remove all but few needles on each growing tip of the upper purple section(10-12 needle pairs I recon) and leave the lower buds alone for a few years.

if you haven't been already, begin to fertilize regularly and with a strong application. you need to establish vigor(fertilizer/good watering/sunlight) then balance and direct energy to the lower buds you want to keep through needle plucking and selective pruning, then when you have a strong showing of candle exstension from the lower buds, you can start to remove more from the upper canopy.

Thanks for your detailed reply !
Knowing the lower bud can’t be count on at this stage helps, that has not crossed my mind yet. Never realise needle plucking as an option , I was thinking chopping those top whorls but if the lower bud does not extend I’d have lost all my options on the top.
Currently I’m giving it a strong fertilisation, water and sun regime.

Would needle plucking now (Summer) help the lower bud instead of waiting two months to get in fall?

 

[River's Edge]

You have indicate a trunk thickness of 12mm, so less than 1/2 inch for clarity!
Wire the trunk for movement this fall as well as plant on an angle. When replanting start working on the roots. Consider styling in four or five years when the trunk has some size and some movement. Then when you start cutting back, new shoots will present ne opportunities.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

12mm of trunk already takes a bunch of wire, but it can be done and it's worth it.
At 13mm they become really difficult to bend. At 14 even more.

 

[Shibui]

How much trunk is buried? If the roots are just below that little bud seems very low to become the first bend but should still be OK if you want to keep with your plan.
The upper branches do not seem too hight to be useful if planning for a medium sized bonsai.
JBP are very apical dominant so while upper branches are strong those little buds low on the trunk will probably not grow much and may even die. Needle pulling is one way to reduce vigour of branches. It will also allow more light to get to the low buds.
Even better would be to chop the strong branch immediately above that little bud. You can still leave the ones on the opposite side of the trunk as sacrifice branches. Chopping that branch above will reduce the auxins coming down the trunk and should allow that bud to grow better.

Was there any label on this tree when you got it? The growth habit looks more like Yatsubusa Japanese black pine rather than standard JBP. If it is Yatsubusa you need slightly different techniques to develop and maintain.

 

[River's Edge]

You have indicate a trunk thickness of 12mm, so less than 1/2 inch for clarity!
Wire the trunk for movement this fall as well as plant on an angle. When replanting start working on the roots. Consider styling in four or five years when the trunk has some size and some movement. Then when you start cutting back, new shoots will present ne opportunities.

Sometimes we assume that what we read is correct. Their are many proven techniques for bending trunks and branches. Your tree is very young and pliable at this stage. Lots of opportunity for back budding, bending, grafting, working towards any number of design options. Just to illustrate a point here is a photo that combines bending and grafting to improve a trunk. The thickness of the trunk is approximately 2 1/2 inches at the section being bent, the trunk is approximately 12 years old with mature bark. The bend and the grafts were successful. Picture is from 2017, one of the JBP that I was developing from Telperion field grown stock. Second picture shows the tree three years later with some additional grafts and further growth. Bend apparatus removed. Your tree would require one strand of #6 or two wraps of # 8 copper wire to add movement to the trunk with ease at thus stage of development.

 

[flower_totem]

How much trunk is buried? If the roots are just below that little bud seems very low to become the first bend but should still be OK if you want to keep with your plan.
The upper branches do not seem too hight to be useful if planning for a medium sized bonsai.
JBP are very apical dominant so while upper branches are strong those little buds low on the trunk will probably not grow much and may even die. Needle pulling is one way to reduce vigour of branches. It will also allow more light to get to the low buds.
Even better would be to chop the strong branch immediately above that little bud. You can still leave the ones on the opposite side of the trunk as sacrifice branches. Chopping that branch above will reduce the auxins coming down the trunk and should allow that bud to grow better.

Was there any label on this tree when you got it? The growth habit looks more like Yatsubusa Japanese black pine rather than standard JBP. If it is Yatsubusa you need slightly different techniques to develop and maintain.

@Shibui unfortunately there was no label on it, upon reading more about JBP Yatsubusa, it does looks like be one, and I remember reading a thread replies by you with detailing about Yatsubusa Japanese Black Pine. I will need to search and revisit that.

You have indicate a trunk thickness of 12mm, so less than 1/2 inch for clarity!
Wire the trunk for movement this fall as well as plant on an angle. When replanting start working on the roots. Consider styling in four or five years when the trunk has some size and some movement. Then when you start cutting back, new shoots will present ne opportunities.

Ok after reading all your comments, I will chop that branch that is immediately above the bud and let it grow over the summer. Come fall, I will pluck those needles and perhaps attempt to bend the trunk above that bud as a practice. Lastly to move into grow box, while checking out and work on the roots and then plant on an angle.

Will that be too much for this JBP?

Thank you everyone for your input!

 

[River's Edge]

Will that be too much for this JBP?

Yes
If I may suggest a slower approach. Trying to understand your season down under so perhaps you can translate for me.
1. First step would be to find and understand the nebari, how it may influence the development of the tree and best design options. in order to do this I would repot at the next available best best time for pines. Typically early spring or early fall for young pines. This gives you an opportunity to improve root structure, change planting angle and plan forward for the best options for this particular tree.
2. Second step would be to wire the trunk and the branch that you wish to use to continue the trunk line for movement. If you choose to develop a bit larger or medium design instead of a shohin.
3. Third step, plan to reduce the branching slowly in order to benefit from possible further back budding on the trunk in the process. So chop one of the branches from the whorl at a time over the next few seasons in order to benefit from the chop.. Leave a short stub when chopping and finish the cut a few months later. If you time the chops for when the candles have extended and the needles are beginning to open up you will get the best results.

The purpose behind this slower approach is to retain strength and vigorous so the tree can respond to the techniques applied. Moving too quickly amounts to weakening the tree and leaving it with very little foliage to fuel the recovery!

Hope the clarification helps. Sometimes when we answer one question, the answer is applied without consideration for all the other variables.
With Bonsai, often less is more and things take time.
best in bonsai

 

[Shibui]

Spring repotting in Melbourne can be from July through to October.
Autumn repotting probably March would allow plenty of time before cold weather.

Candles extend from July/August through to October. Needles mostly opened by November.
Usual decandling time is mid December.

I agree the 1st step is find and manage nebari. Pointless developing a great tree then find the nebari is a tangled mass or the roots are very one sided. High roots on one side can mean tilting the trunk one way or another to get even nebari. That trunk tilt will affect how the branches are placed and what trunk bends will look good.

JBP are quite strong but doing too much too soon can really set any tree back hence the adage 1 insult per season/year. The 3 steps outlined above would probably be spread over 2-3 years for best results.

unfortunately there was no label on it, upon reading more about JBP Yatsubusa, it does looks like be one, and I remember reading a thread replies by you with detailing about Yatsubusa Japanese Black Pine.

I'm far from certain with that ID. Yatsubusa are normally grafted and I can't see any sign of a graft union on the trunk. Hence the question about how deep the roots are. The graft may be buried? Maybe someone managed to strike some cuttings?
Maybe I'm incorrect and it's normal JBP that has been pruned and just looks like Yatsubusa growth pattern.

 

[flower_totem]

Yes
If I may suggest a slower approach. Trying to understand your season down under so perhaps you can translate for me.
1. First step would be to find and understand the nebari, how it may influence the development of the tree and best design options. in order to do this I would repot at the next available best best time for pines. Typically early spring or early fall for young pines. This gives you an opportunity to improve root structure, change planting angle and plan forward for the best options for this particular tree.
2. Second step would be to wire the trunk and the branch that you wish to use to continue the trunk line for movement. If you choose to develop a bit larger or medium design instead of a shohin.
3. Third step, plan to reduce the branching slowly in order to benefit from possible further back budding on the trunk in the process. So chop one of the branches from the whorl at a time over the next few seasons in order to benefit from the chop.. Leave a short stub when chopping and finish the cut a few months later. If you time the chops for when the candles have extended and the needles are beginning to open up you will get the best results.

The purpose behind this slower approach is to retain strength and vigorous so the tree can respond to the techniques applied. Moving too quickly amounts to weakening the tree and leaving it with very little foliage to fuel the recovery!

Hope the clarification helps. Sometimes when we answer one question, the answer is applied without consideration for all the other variables.
With Bonsai, often less is more and things take time.
best in bonsai

Spring repotting in Melbourne can be from July through to October.
Autumn repotting probably March would allow plenty of time before cold weather.

Candles extend from July/August through to October. Needles mostly opened by November.
Usual decandling time is mid December.

I agree the 1st step is find and manage nebari. Pointless developing a great tree then find the nebari is a tangled mass or the roots are very one sided. High roots on one side can mean tilting the trunk one way or another to get even nebari. That trunk tilt will affect how the branches are placed and what trunk bends will look good.

JBP are quite strong but doing too much too soon can really set any tree back hence the adage 1 insult per season/year. The 3 steps outlined above would probably be spread over 2-3 years for best results.

I'm far from certain with that ID. Yatsubusa are normally grafted and I can't see any sign of a graft union on the trunk. Hence the question about how deep the roots are. The graft may be buried? Maybe someone managed to strike some cuttings?
Maybe I'm incorrect and it's normal JBP that has been pruned and just looks like Yatsubusa growth pattern.

Thank you, River's Edge and Shibui, for your thoughtful advice.

River's Edge, your step-by-step approach make a lot of sense. I agree and I’ll focus on the nebari first and take my time with the other steps to avoid stressing the tree.

Shibui, your clarification on seasonal timing here in Melbourne is super helpful, and I’ll use that to plan the repotting and other steps. Your point about nebari shaping the design is a great reminder to start with the basics.
There isn't any graft union and I will have a good look when repotting in Autumn. Now I doubt it is a Yatsubusa but I will observe.

I’ll be taking a slower, steady approach for this Japanese Black Pine. Thanks again for sharing your insights!

I will update on this JBP here in future.