Been growing trident and Japanese maples in south Florida

[Flabonsai]

I ordered some trident seeds back in 2010 from someone on ebay down in Australia that said they were rare Taiwanese trident seeds and more heat tolerant. Its been 10yrs and they are growing and looking better then ever. I have 2 trees in a 20 gal pots growing and one of the trees even produced seeds last year. I have been taking cuttings from them for a few years and they are doing very well. The tridents get about 4 to 6 hours of morning sun before being in full shade by the afternoon.

I decided a few years ago to give Japanese maples a shot from seed and have had somewhat good luck but not as good as the tridents. I give them only a few hours of morning sun and then full shade by 10am in the morning.

Last year I bought a 1 gallon (Acer Campestre) Hedge maple from Evergreen gardenworks that did well and I gave it the same amount of sun as my tridents. The leaves on this maple are thicker like the tridents so the sun didnt really burn the leaves as much as the Japanese maples. I even have some sweetgums I've been growing over the past few years and there doing good also.

I live in zone 10a down here in Southeast FL and we don't hardly get much cool weather. It gets in the 40's and on rare occasions in the upper 30's once every few years. This winter was pretty warm.


I've been removing all the leaves off all my deciduous trees that don't lose all by Jan 1st. This year most of them still had about 25% of there leaves by Jan 1st before removing them. Also on Jan 1st I put them in full shade until March 1st as soon as they start to bud again. My Japanese maples didn't start to leaf out until May this year.

Do you think its a good idea removing the leaves on Jan 1st or should I just leave them alone? This has been a fun experiment and I understand there not all going to make it but I enjoy it.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I think we should be asking you for advice. Continue doing what works!

 

[Flabonsai]

T

I think we should be asking you for advice. Continue doing what works!

Thanks! Yeah its been a fun experimenting trying to grow things out of my zone.

 

[markyscott]

I ordered some trident seeds back in 2010 from someone on ebay down in Australia that said they were rare Taiwanese trident seeds and more heat tolerant. Its been 10yrs and they are growing and looking better then ever. I have 2 trees in a 20 gal pots growing and one of the trees even produced seeds last year. I have been taking cuttings from them for a few years and they are doing very well. The tridents get about 4 to 6 hours of morning sun before being in full shade by the afternoon.

I decided a few years ago to give Japanese maples a shot from seed and have had somewhat good luck but not as good as the tridents. I give them only a few hours of morning sun and then full shade by 10am in the morning.

Last year I bought a 1 gallon (Acer Campestre) Hedge maple from Evergreen gardenworks that did well and I gave it the same amount of sun as my tridents. The leaves on this maple are thicker like the tridents so the sun didnt really burn the leaves as much as the Japanese maples. I even have some sweetgums I've been growing over the past few years and there doing good also.

I live in zone 10a down here in Southeast FL and we don't hardly get much cool weather. It gets in the 40's and on rare occasions in the upper 30's once every few years. This winter was pretty warm.


I've been removing all the leaves off all my deciduous trees that don't lose all by Jan 1st. This year most of them still had about 25% of there leaves by Jan 1st before removing them. Also on Jan 1st I put them in full shade until March 1st as soon as they start to bud again. My Japanese maples didn't start to leaf out until May this year.

Do you think its a good idea removing the leaves on Jan 1st or should I just leave them alone? This has been a fun experiment and I understand there not all going to make it but I enjoy it.

I’ve been removing any leaves that are remaining on my maples (generally quite a few on the Japanese maples) in early January so that I have a long enough dormant season for dormant spraying. I’ve done it for almost 20 years in Houston.

 

[roberthu]

Can we see some pics please?

 

[AlainK]

Do you think its a good idea removing the leaves on Jan 1st

Here (zone 8) some (among them "reputed bonsai growers) remove the leaves of their maples before they fall : their argument is that until they are not in dormancy, the buds will develop more for the next spring.

I never do it myself. But in your area where the weather is much warmer than in their natural environment, maybe this could help them have a "fake" period of dormancy. Just a guess...

 

[Flabonsai]

Can we see some pics please?

Yes, I'll take some when I get home later.

 

[Flabonsai]

Here (zone 8) some (among them "reputed bonsai growers) remove the leaves of their maples before they fall : their argument is that until they are not in dormancy, the buds will develop more for the next spring.

I never do it myself. But in your area where the weather is much warmer than in their natural environment, maybe this could help them have a "fake" period of dormancy. Just a guess...

I also don't defoliate in summer for a second flush of leaves. I want them to have as much energy stored up so they can push out there new flush for next year. I only remove them once a year in January then there in the full shade until spring.

 

[Flabonsai]

Here are the 2 seedlings that I grew from seed 10 years ago and a few others.

 

[AlainK]

They look very healthy, good job.

 

[Flabonsai]

They look very healthy, good job.

Thank you!

 

[Crawforde]

Very nice!
The only maples I have in Florida are some A. Rubrum saplings I collected in the swamp.
nothing much yet, but it is nice to know it is possible to do tridents here.
have you been able to get any cuttings to grow?

 

[Arlithrien]

So let me get this straight... The idea is that if you manually remove the leaves, it will fake the tree into a dormancy without needing cold temperatures?

 

[markyscott]

So let me get this straight... The idea is that if you manually remove the leaves, it will fake the tree into a dormancy without needing cold temperatures?

By late December or early January in Houston, trees are into fall mode. Most of the trees by that time are exhibiting some fall color - some more than others. Japanese maples can be mostly green with a bit of red to mostly red with a bit of green, depending on how cold of an autumn we’ve had. If the trees are showing color, I believe it is safe to remove the leaves. I’ve not observed any spring growth (whether I remove the leaves or not) until the normal spring push in late February or early March. So I don’t think that removing the leaves induces dormancy. Rather, the tree is already on the path to dormancy and removing them at that time does not encourage another flush of growth. With the leaves off, you can more easily perform fall maintenance during what passes for a winter here (cutback, repotting, light wiring and dormant spraying).



Scott

 

[Arlithrien]

By late December or early January in Houston, trees are into fall mode. Most of the trees by that time are exhibiting some fall color - some more than others. Japanese maples can be mostly green with a bit of red to mostly red with a bit of green, depending on how cold of an autumn we’ve had. If the trees are showing color, I believe it is safe to remove the leaves. I’ve not observed any spring growth (whether I remove the leaves or not) until the normal spring push in late February or early March. So I don’t think that removing the leaves induces dormancy. Rather, the tree is already on the path to dormancy and removing them at that time does not encourage another flush of growth. With the leaves off, you can more easily perform fall maintenance during what passes for a winter here (cutback, repotting, light wiring and dormant spraying).

View attachment 304175

Scott

What about in areas like South Florida where there is under 100 chill hours per year? I am in my first year trying to grow deciduous in a warm climate and was planning on putting my maples in the fridge for a few months.

My understanding has been that maples will eventually fizzle out after a few years of not getting enough chill hours and go comatose.

 

[AlainK]

With the leaves off, you can more easily perform fall maintenance during what passes for a winter here (cutback, repotting, light wiring and dormant spraying).

Love your photo - that's a big, nice one !

But this can't be a maple : alternate lanceolate leaves, etc. No, that's not a maple

Fake maple ! That's cheating !

 

[hemmy]

Do you think its a good idea removing the leaves on Jan 1st or should I just leave them alone?

Here’s another recent thread on J Maple dormancy.

Japanese Maples Chill Hour Requirements

I recently purchased several Acer Papmatum trees (Shindeshojo, Akane, Englishtown, Red Dragon, and Orangeola). I plan to develop most of these for bonsai (except the two weeping varieties with high grafts). They are all currently planted in pots. I live in upstate New York in Zone 5b. My...

www.bonsainut.com

Our winter lows are low 40s with no frosts in the last 10yrs. Tridents do wonderful in my microclimate. The leaves are usually spent by late Dec. and some get removed, others don’t. If you look up their native range in China, it also includes coastal areas with mild winters. Japanese Maples don’t do as well in the landscape, but there are larger trees in the neighborhood landscape. Chill hours appear to be sufficient here and heat isn’t a problem. Water quality and untreated fungal issues seem to be the main obstacles.

Congrats on pushing the limits! Now you need a refrigeration crate to grow those northern conifers! Lol.

 

[markyscott]

What about in areas like South Florida where there is under 100 chill hours per year? I am in my first year trying to grow deciduous in a warm climate and was planning on putting my maples in the fridge for a few months.

My understanding has been that maples will eventually fizzle out after a few years of not getting enough chill hours and go comatose.

I can’t say much about growing in Florida except to say that I believe our climate here in Houston is similar to Gainesville - I live in Zone 9b and I generally get close to 200-400 chill hours I think. This winter was mild - I’d be surprised if it was as much as 100. I can say that Trident maples grow extremely well here and are easier than Japanese maples. I know them to do well in the New Orleans area as well. I keep mine in full sun and they do great. Japanese maples grow ok, and do better with a bit of sun protection, especially when the temperature gets above 90 or so. Neither gets particularly good fall colors unless we have an early cold snap. I don’t think you’ll have a problem with Tridents in Orlando and I wouldn’t put them in the refrigerator. I have the sense that the Japanese maples are closer to the southern limit of their zone here. I’d probably go with the Tridents first.

I’m almost sure I’ve seen some videos from Orlando Bonsai where he showed at least one pretty nice tridents.

Yup - 7 minute mark.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

Love your photo - that's a big, nice one !

But this can't be a maple : alternate lanceolate leaves, etc. No, that's not a maple

Fake maple ! That's cheating !

Lol - It’s true. That is a Cedar elm. I just happened to have an in-action picture of fall happening with that tree. I swear that I have tridents too - with a little effort, folks can find threads on some of them.

 

[Forsoothe!]

A couple look a little chlorotic, no?