Balancing trunk thickeness with future bud development and ramification

[apr]

Hi folks

I've asked about thickening trunks recently and was given some great advice which I've read up on. Just looking for some clarification on the nuance of when to start applying certain techniques.

I'm thinking broadly coniferous ie black or scots pine and deciduous, maple,, beech, oak, elm etc.

I've taken on board the message that a good base is critical and that the base and trunk are key, branches can come later once the foundations of nebari, healthy shin and trunk are on the way.

I'm beginning to understand the trade offs - thicken in the ground with no pruning, let it run and you'll get a thick trunk - but potentially a large chop scar to heal. Regular small chops means smaller scars but very slow thickening, whereas somewhere in the middle means smaller scars but slower thickening. In pines, not balancing means probably losing weaker lower branches.

I'm starting to understand some of the techniques to increase ramification, back budding, the species that won't back bud, or won't bud from old wood etc.


What I'm trying to piece together is when to start that transition away from just focusing on trunk thickeness to building the primary branches and inducing budding to have buds to select from ?

Scots pines I can see post flush harden pruning can stimulate back buds. Maples will produce buds from trunk chops. Elms will throw up buds all the time. Hinoki won't back bud. Japanese black pine can seemingly back bud if vigorous etc.

I guess what I'm getting at is how to avoid just building a trunk then having to induce budding, vs overlapping trunk thickening, and moving to increase the number of Buds and branches to begin to select from if that makes sense ?

At what stage do you start to use techniques like leaf cutting to stimulate interior budding, candle pruning, bud selection, etc rather than just letting all branches run to build up a big photosynthetic mass.

Thanks !

 

[Shibui]

Horses for courses.
With back budding species I can take the trunk thickening further because I know I can get shoots after a chop, even if no lower shoots present. With these I can take trunk thickening to around 80% of what I'm looking for. The remaining thickening will occur during the post chop new leader development and branch development. Note that new leader, branches and then ramification will probably take at least as long as the initial trunk thickening.
I still prefer more regular chop and grow cycles because that brings me out way ahead on trunk movement and trunk taper, even of the thickening takes a couple of years more. I'll still go to around 80% trunk thickness before switching to developing branches and ramification.
Overall, time to well developed bonsai appears to be similar for both methods but I get much better, more consistent good results with the second.

There is another alternative. That's to skip grow and chop altogether and start developing branches right from the beginning. That will take many years but you'll usually end up with a scar free trunk and much better form. Most of us will not want to dedicate the years necessary though.

For species that don't back bud well it is important to manage the lower shoots. They are more of a priority than trunk thickening. No point having a thick trunk if the branches are way up near the top of a long trunk. I usually still use grow and chop cycles to build trunk thickness but must watch carefully and time the chops before oldest needles fall.
Decandling is only employed when trunk is completed and main branching in place. Decandling is used to develop the final ramification of branches and apex.

All these concepts are far easier to explain in person, with examples of growth at the desirable stages, too early and too far. See if you can find someone within reasonable distance who may be able to help you learn this stuff.

 

[apr]

All these concepts are far easier to explain in person, with examples of growth at the desirable stages, too early and too far. See if you can find someone within reasonable distance who may be able to help you learn this stuff.

Thanks


A would agree in person is definitely easier to chat and understand concepts.

This is part of the problem as I struggle to get to my local club often and youtube is an information overload - even off the back your comment on decandling, the cogs are moving and I'm trying to see how you reserve that for a tree moving into refinement but also stop the foliage creeping too far out on the branches etc.

I'll see if there's anyone I can chat with locally.

 

[Shibui]

Stop pine foliage from creeping too far during development by hard pruning. Pines will always bud where there are needles. Needles live for 2-3 years so we can let the shoots grow free for 2 years then chop back into the oldest needles to create new branches from that point.
Maybe this illustration might help?