Asahiyama Sakura and Deshojo

[gopix]

Hi, newbie here. Mostly have prebonsai Pemphis Acidula, Causarina, Calliandras, a few JBP's..

I was gifted these Asahiyama and Deshojo and a few satsuki azaleas and a trident last month..

They came in their dormant state last month. Repotted to a slightly deeper pot and wired in. Soil mix is akadama/kanuma/kiryuzuna (a commercial succulent mix) + 30% our local pumice and river sand. They're under a Mango tree I trim to shade them from 1400H sun

I am planning ahead on how to help reduce their struggle because we have no winter chills here in the tropics.. Also read about Mike Knowlton's satsukis in Florida. Thinking of a cabinet glass front chiller and place it outside in the morning sun next January.

Any based from experience tips? Thank you!

 

[Seusneeby]

I don't have much advice on the the chiller. Although, in the abstract it seems like a decent way to mimic their natural ranges winter temps. Certainly will need pay attention to humidity and what temp you set.

Also, who is gifting you these plants. Very jealous.

 

[gopix]

I don't have much advice on the the chiller. Although, in the abstract it seems like a decent way to mimic their natural ranges winter temps. Certainly will need pay attention to humidity and what temp you set.

Also, who is gifting you these plants. Very jealous.

Humidity and temp and light hours right.. If I am giving them 8 hours of sun a day, maybe give them 5-6 morning sun + chiller and in it are glasses of water for humidity yea? I also have spare growlights and have a room for a morning sun facing chiller in our roofed garage..

I've been trying to find researches via google scholar but to no avail.

A kind bonsai artist and an acquaintance in Japan I talked with when I visited Nippon Bonsai Society there gave these...

Something like this at 3-8 Celsius.. I have grow lights that can face the glass with timers to supplement if there are days without sunlight. Would it work?

 

[Cadillactaste]

A bit of advice...

 

[rockm]

Humidity and temp and light hours right.. If I am giving them 8 hours of sun a day, maybe give them 5-6 morning sun + chiller and in it are glasses of water for humidity yea? I also have spare growlights and have a room for a morning sun facing chiller in our roofed garage..

I've been trying to find researches via google scholar but to no avail.

A kind bonsai artist and an acquaintance in Japan I talked with when I visited Nippon Bonsai Society there gave these...

Something like this at 3-8 Celsius.. I have grow lights that can face the glass with timers to supplement if there are days without sunlight. Would it work?

Don't know what you're trying to do exactly. Are you trying to provide a cold dormancy, or keep in-leaf plants cool in summer.

For dormancy, Maples and temperate climate trees don't need light in dormancy, so the cabinet won't need any lighting. Putting the chiller cabinet in the sun defeats the purpose of the chiller.

For growing, again wouldn't put the cabinets in sunlight, provide all the supplemental lighting inside the cabinet. This will take some doing -- you will have issues with heat build up from the high output lighting systems that will be needed for the trees. That enclosed structure will also have issues with mold and mildew from the added humidity and non-existent air circulation.

Good luck!

 

[dbonsaiw]

I know Mach5 has a thread here in which he tried to overwinter a maple in the refrigerator. I don't believe it went well as it was way too dry.

 

[ChefB]

I wintered a few trees in a mini fridge this year. Moisture was not a problem because there is no condensing unit or blower in a mini fridge. In fact, when the fridge would reach temperature and shut down, some of the frozen moisture in the freezer compartment would melt and drip down on the trees, mimicking rain. I still checked on the trees once a week just to make sure their soil was nice and moist. I imagine if you winter your trees in traditional refrigerator like you were picturing, you may have issues because of the dry air of a refrigerator.

 

[gopix]

I wintered a few trees in a mini fridge this year. Moisture was not a problem because there is no condensing unit or blower in a mini fridge. In fact, when the fridge would reach temperature and shut down, some of the frozen moisture in the freezer compartment would melt and drip down on the trees, mimicking rain. I still checked on the trees once a week just to make sure their soil was nice and moist. I imagine if you winter your trees in traditional refrigerator like you were picturing, you may have issues because of the dry air of a refrigerator.

Hi, what kinds of trees did you winter in the mini fridge? Jwp? Jap maples?

I see.. A Chiller with an aircool fan might just dessicate the trees, even if I place jugs of water inbetween.. I do have an old one door ref 10 cuft fridge and a 5cu ft mini fridge with ice buildups..

 

[ChefB]

Japanese white pine, red maple x2, crab apple. I probably could’ve gone without putting the red maples or the crabapple in there but hey, I’m experimenting.

 

[ChefB]

One of the red maples actually broke buds in the refrigerator.

 

[gopix]

Japanese white pine, red maple x2, crab apple. I probably could’ve gone without putting the red maples or the crabapple in there but hey, I’m experimenting.

How many total chilling hours did you give them? Can I see them now? Big thanks!

 

[ChefB]

I’ll try to send you a pic when I get home. I’m at work right now. I gave them 1000 hours. I put them in the last week of January and I pulled them out on Monday night. I left them in there a couple extra days because I was trying to wait for a cold snap and I was blessed with one. Yay!

 

[ChefB]

No sign of anything on the pine yet, but they are living. It’s 50f here.

 

[gopix]

No sign of anything on the pine yet, but they are living. It’s 50f here.

Any news on the JWP? I really want one now.. I've been practicing with pemphis, ficus and bougainvilleas..

Btw, I did 6 deshojo softwood cuttings and 10 tridents. The tridents rooted vigorously.. Repotted in these little clay pots in surplus shops.

5 weeks in, I tried pulling out one of the deshojos. Are these roots enough for repotting into bonsai soil? I did a mix of peat moss, chopped sphagnum and pumice as rooting mix and the bag method

 

[Maiden69]

Any news on the JWP? I really want one now..

Sorry, JWP will not survive in Pilipinas. JBP will thrive for sure! As far as the maples, you could use the cooler to provide them dormancy, they do not need a lot of light, and most would say that they don't need any light. JMaples need to have a dormant period, according to Brent Watson, around 1000hrs would be enough for them, and a combination of light and heat will break the dormancy. The problem with the cooler is that the environment is extremely dry, and the tree needs some humidity so it doesn't dry out and die. I think @cmeg1 has provided dormancy for some of his crops this way, so he could provide some more info on the subject.

I would work with native species, as you are doing. Ficus will grow strong in your climate. The JM will live, but after 2 years without any dormancy, they will eventually go to sleep and probably won't wake up. Below is an excerpt from Brent's article.

What is Dormancy?​

Dormancy is a survival strategy that temperate climate species have evolved to stay alive over the winter. These species have a biological clock that tells them to slow activity and prepare soft tissues for an onslaught of freezing temperatures.
Species that have well developed dormancy needs cannot be tricked out of them. If you attempt to give a such as species, for instance Japanese maple, Acer palmatum, an eternal summer by bringing it in the house, it will grow continuously for as long as two years. After a maximum period of sustained growth, a temperate climate plant will automatically go dormant no matter what the season or condition. Deciduous plants will lose their leaves, evergreens will curtail all new growth. This is very stressful to the plant and usually fatal. It will be 100% fatal if the plant does not receive the necessary period of cold temperatures required to break the dormancy.

To summarize, temperate climate plants require a cold dormant period. They have internal clocks that tell them when to go dormant. The clocks can be tricked to some degree. After a normal growing season, dormancy can be brought on by decreasing temperatures and shortened daylength, or delayed by maintaining summer temperatures and daylength.

 

[gopix]

Sorry, JWP will not survive in Pilipinas. JBP will thrive for sure! As far as the maples, you could use the cooler to provide them dormancy, they do not need a lot of light, and most would say that they don't need any light. JMaples need to have a dormant period, according to Brent Watson, around 1000hrs would be enough for them, and a combination of light and heat will break the dormancy. The problem with the cooler is that the environment is extremely dry, and the tree needs some humidity so it doesn't dry out and die. I think @cmeg1 has provided dormancy for some of his crops this way, so he could provide some more info on the subject.

I would work with native species, as you are doing. Ficus will grow strong in your climate. The JM will live, but after 2 years without any dormancy, they will eventually go to sleep and probably won't wake up. Below is an excerpt from Brent's article.

This is a good read, thank you very much!

 

[ChefB]

Any news on the JWP? I really want one now.. I've been practicing with pemphis, ficus and bougainvilleas..

Btw, I did 6 deshojo softwood cuttings and 10 tridents. The tridents rooted vigorously.. Repotted in these little clay pots in surplus shops.

5 weeks in, I tried pulling out one of the deshojos. Are these roots enough for repotting into bonsai soil? I did a mix of peat moss, chopped sphagnum and pumice as rooting mix and the bag method

Yes, when I pulled the JWP out of the mini fridge I put it in a pot with bonsai substrate and set it on the bench. About a week later it started pushing needles. Though I am out of town now I cannot send a pic, I will send one when I get home later. All the trees from the mini fridge are doing great especially the crabapple from Brent at EG. that thing is going crazy.

 

[ChefB]

For the record the refrigerator I put my trees in is a mini fridge that is not frost free. In fact, it usually grows a rather large chunk of ice in the freezer compartment, which needs to be defrosted regularly if I use this fridge to chill my beer.