Antique japanese scroll.. can anyone help me?

[Shun]

Hello guys.. It's kinda off-topic but I need some help indentifying this antique scroll brought from Japan by my great grandfather who was an "art collector" and its said by my family to be valuable..

I tend to agree with it because it even has gold wire details on it.. So how can I know its value? My family tried to evaluate its worth decades ago on art galleries and other places here in Brazil but only to find out that they did not know anything about it and each time with less of the gold details every time it returned from some "evaluator".. And for that reason my family decided to put it away and it was stored ever since.

The dimensions: aprox. 2meters in height and 70cm in width.

The original box it came in rotted away so decades ago another one was made for it.. I have no knowledge whatsoever on its history but some (to me) "fairytale" history that it was given to someone in japan by some emperor as a token of appreciation for some heroic deed... Kinda hard to believe but it actually is very old...

here comes the pictures and hope someone in here can help me.. I do not speak japanese so I can't and don't know how/where to ask for help..!

Thank you guys!

the box:"


the only piece of information I have on the scroll (written by my grandmother but I can't read japanese)


one of the signatures:



another seal of some sort:



The gold wire detail.. Some sort of flower:





along with this big scroll my family also inherited a few small paintings on some sort of linen.. they are much smaller.. but would look nice in a frame:

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Nice! First scroll looks very high quality. Was it a marriage gift? Very marriage / fertility themed.

Second scroll not as valuable / high quality. But I am hoping to hear more from our resident experts.

If he doesn't respond right away, send a personal note to Jonathan Maples (user name kakejiku).

 

[Shun]

Hello! Thank you for the quick response..! I will try to get in touch with Jonathan if he doesn't respond to this thread! Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel!

What I do know about this piece and my great grandfather was that he was a very rich man back in the day and lost most of its fortune and near his death he gave this scroll (and the few other small paintings) as inheritance to my family and told us the scroll was very valuable and told this story about it being a gift from "Shotoku Taishi" but reseaching about that name it goes back to year 574-622, a japanese prince.. I'm not a fool so I know this information is not correct because if this was 1000+ years old it would not be in this condition.. It clearly is of high quality and very old but I wish to know more about it..

You are correct about the smaller paintings not being as of high quality.. the painting seems unfinished on some details such as the bridge and the house... These I might keep for myself but we sure could use the money from the big scroll if its really of some value.. Things are not good in Brazil

Thank you very much!

 

[sorce]

@kakejiku is who I thought of.

Man!

That is too cool!

Very Nice!

Sorce

 

[rockm]

I don't think this is a hugely valuable masterpiece. It is typical of scrolls that are being sold regularly on Ebay these days. It's theme of pines, cranes and peonies is also common. The meaning of those symbolic animals and plants is basically a wish for long life and happiness. The wire pawlonia leaves are an exception and could indicate this is an official gift from the Government of Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Seal_of_Japan


Can't read Kanji, and I am hardly an expert, but I have bought numerous Japanese scrolls from Japanese sellers over the years and done research on scrolls. This looks to me like a "Showa" period (1920's-1980's) from the looks of the paper, images and other stuff.

 

[Smoke]

I don't think this is a hugely valuable masterpiece. It is typical of scrolls that are being sold regularly on Ebay these days. It's theme of pines, cranes and peonies is also common. The meaning of those symbolic animals and plants is basically a wish for long life and happiness. The wire pawlonia leaves are an exception and could indicate this is an official gift from the Government of Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Seal_of_Japan


Can't read Kanji, and I am hardly an expert, but I have bought numerous Japanese scrolls from Japanese sellers over the years and done research on scrolls. This looks to me like a "Showa" period (1920's-1980's) from the looks of the paper, images and other stuff.

True that

You can look around here

 

[Shun]

Thanks for this whole bunch of info! It sure helps a bit!

I know its not worth huge amounts but i want to know more about it to have a clue about its actual value..! Being an oficial gift from the government of Japan is a plus, I would guess.. I'm not trying to sell this thing here but really want to know more about it.. As in: who is the author? When it was made? The pourpose of the gift and anything else I can get to know about it

 

[rockm]

Thanks for this whole bunch of info! It sure helps a bit!

I know its not worth huge amounts but i want to know more about it to have a clue about its actual value..! Being an oficial gift from the government of Japan is a plus, I would guess.. I'm not trying to sell this thing here but really want to know more about it.. As in: who is the author? When it was made? The pourpose of the gift and anything else I can get to know about it

Unless you get lucky and someone can read the signature and inscription, you will have a very very hard time having anyone translate anything on it, especially the author. I've tried numerous times with numerous scrolls. Answers to inscription and signatures can be all over the place or non-existent because the kanji can be highly stylized...told you when it was made --showa era --my guess would be 1970's to mid 1980's. Purpose of the gift is most likely a "thank you" for some service your relative did, or provided--which is probably only know to them. It's basically a "live long and prosper" kind of thing. There is nothing on the scroll indicating why it was given, as far as I can tell.

 

[Shun]

Thank you very much for you help, rockm!

In your searches do you find feasible a japanese source knowing what is it? I mean author-wise.. By relating the signatures to the seal maybe somewhere in Japan there is a resource on it.. Have you ever tried that?

Thank you again and sorry for the late response!

 

[kakejiku]

I have been too busy with customer orders to take the time to translate anything. As I previously stated, I can not see the pics on this thread anyway on most of the computers, so send me the information with all pics to sales@customjapanesecalligraphy.com and I will forward to some gallery Japanese art professionals. Whether they reply or not will not be for sure but a reply could be an indication of value....Jonathan

 

[Shun]

I will send those pictures to you, Jonathan!

Thank you for taking your time to answer me!