Another BIG American Hornbeam thread.

[ForrestW]

I am very excited about this material I acquired this year from a local grower/friend. I did not do anything to it this year aside from fertilizer and keeping it healthy as it was dug from the field in the spring, and bare rooted then potted up in the wooden box it is currently in. I am just now starting to study it and would enjoy any opinions about what side you would pick, and what direction you would take it. I love some of the videos recently posted here by Gram Potter and his carving, it is really eye opening. I also really love the work of Marija Hajdic, and Walter Pall and all the oriental hornbeams they have made. That is the stylistic direction I would lean but how tall or compact is really up in the air. Generally I think the top is a little tall, and the from this first possible front the left branch is too long. (spreads your eyes too wide if I kept the right side) But again, I am really going to study this guy over the winter and start making some decisions in the spring or possibly early summer after the first flush.

As this is my first bonsai post-- just a short background. I am not new to bonsai, I have been doing this for 24 years with many of my trees including another smaller collected hornbeam for 20+ years, but still have much to learn. I am not approaching this as a novice, however any carving work will be new to me and I do have some larger trees-- but this would be my largest.

The front could be this angle, or between the two views show (about 15-20 degree shift)

 

[ForrestW]

This is the other side of that tree, and in many ways I like it better. I feel like it would be easier to reduce the height a little, my only hiccup is I an not fond of how the large massive leader moves towards the back (the last photo show a side view to see that)

I know it could also be one of the other sides-- especially if one or both of those major lower branches were removed but these were the two starting points I was studying.

Again, any thoughts and opinions are very welcome-- Thanks Rob

 

[Adamski77]

very nice piece of material... reminds me of one of the lindens Ryan was working on in one of his videos. A lot to think through winter?
If you would update your location in the profile last sentence could be a statement

 

[Eckhoffw]

I would be very happy to have such a Cool piece To work on.

Sweet initial structure. This looks like it has the potential to be a wicked tree.

I like the first angle, and I agree the Top could go lower, but I would wait to see how it flushes out next year. Do you have any pics of it in leaf?
I also think the secondary branches coming off the first two main branches could be shortened as well.

Excited for you indeed!

 

[ForrestW]

very nice piece of material... reminds me of one of the lindens Ryan was working on in one of his videos. A lot to think through winter?
If you would update your location in the profile last sentence could be a statement

Thank you, I think I finished my profile stuff.-- Rob

 

[ForrestW]

I would be very happy to have such a Cool piece To work on.

Sweet initial structure. This looks like it has the potential to be a wicked tree.

I like the first angle, and I agree the Top could go lower, but I would wait to see how it flushes out next year. Do you have any pics of it in leaf?
I also think the secondary branches coming off the first two main branches could be shortened as well.

Excited for you indeed!

I did not bother getting any shots later in the year but here is one earlier-- by mid summer all the new leaves covered the structure and I just resolved myself to wait until winter to start studying. Here is one "Quick, and Rough" view of where A thought is going.

 

[Shogun610]

I like the potential fronts you posted behind that white cloth .. especially your post at 5:32. Your mock up looks too much like a conifer… you want the tree to build more tape and more branches up and out not centered close the the branches. Just study deciduous bonsai especially hornbeams to see what I mean.

 

[Mikecheck123]

Love it! But my back hurts just looking at it.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

I like the back view a lot better than the front, and if youre planning on carving ala Graham... this view poses some real interesting possible lines and contours. The leader you say is moving to the back would be easily corrected by wiring a new leader from one of those whips towards the front. It would also build taper as it it grows out.

Great stuff!!

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Monster ‘Beam! Got good bones for sure.

A couple thoughts. Both bottom branches appear to be at the same height. Perhaps the next level too?

Agree branches could use more taper. Some of these situations might be improved with some dedicated yet interesting carving as mentioned in the post.

Best
DSD sends

 

[PaulH]

Great tree! can't wait to see it in a few years.

 

[MHBonsai]

Incredible material! I would lose the straight untapered tall section and work the shorter silhouette like your virtual.

Welcome!

 

[BobbyLane]

Outstanding material.
This is the best angle for me, you could play around with tilting the tree/apex towards the viewer more I guess if you feel it veers back. Arranging branches to come into the forground, especially at the apex, will help as well as arranging for depth. I would style it before reducing then assess it again. I like this height for now. Doesnt look like it needs much carving unless you wanted to give more depth to current uros. Tidy up chops etc

 

[PonderingSage:]

I like the potential fronts you posted behind that white cloth .. especially your post at 5:32. Your mock up looks too much like a conifer… you want the tree to build more tape and more branches up and out not centered close the the branches. Just study deciduous bonsai especially hornbeams to see what I mean.

This is on the money! Keep it a bit wild like the artists who you mentioned in the initial post.
This spring, I would just wire out some of the branches you want to keep, and then just let it grow to help with taper of those new branches.
Good luck that is a dope tree!

 

[Dabbler]

Outstanding material.
This is the best angle for me, you could play around with tilting the tree/apex towards the viewer more I guess if you feel it veers back. Arranging branches to come into the forground, especially at the apex, will help as well as arranging for depth. I would style it before reducing then assess it again. I like this height for now. Doesnt look like it needs much carving unless you wanted to give more depth to current uros. Tidy up chops etc
View attachment 520914

I was gonna suggest this but someone beat me to it

 

[BobbyLane]

The previous grower knows his stuff, he's done a great job on the cuts, chops, angles etc I'd be looking to purchase more material from this guy. The powerful primaries already taper off well to secondary branching. Just needs a good styling now, then allow it free growth before cut back, rinse repeat.

 

[Srt8madness]

Outstanding material.
This is the best angle for me, you could play around with tilting the tree/apex towards the viewer more I guess if you feel it veers back. Arranging branches to come into the forground, especially at the apex, will help as well as arranging for depth. I would style it before reducing then assess it again. I like this height for now. Doesnt look like it needs much carving unless you wanted to give more depth to current uros. Tidy up chops etc
View attachment 520914

Why use what was clearly designed to be the back of the tree? As you mentioned later, the grower knew what they were doing, and kept all the chops on the back. The trunk on the front is phenomenal, I think it would be a shame to hide that.

 

[BobbyLane]

Why use what was clearly designed to be the back of the tree? As you mentioned later, the grower knew what they were doing, and kept all the chops on the back. The trunk on the front is phenomenal, I think it would be a shame to hide that.

Up to you mate. Its quite common with good material that more than one angle looks good.
If the OP is truly considering a naturalistic approach, it should be styled to look great from a few angles, with one or two favourite view points.

 

[ForrestW]

First-- thank you to everyone who has offered up advice, I am grateful. It is nice to have time to ponder and any big work will probably be at least one more year. As recommended I wont do any big carving for at least another year. I agree that a single front is not a necessity early on especially going for something naturalistic-- leaning toward fairytale. I think it be wise to have at least 2 full years of root growth before getting aggressive as well. I do have a few follow up questions for those who may have time to share. I am going to post the two views with my thoughts for the spring and I welcome any opinions. The first is one possible front. My issues with this are
1. The top left branch will aways read as a trunk and am pretty confident that in a season or two this will need carved back maybe to look almost like a top and bottom branch ( eventually a V horizontally once the branches I am keeping are a little more clear)
2. Less of an issue but I think the branch on the right has some nice bifercation already and as the tree needs to grow out it seems that it may be wise to shorten it to the first spit.
3. The top just feels too high to me and on the back are slightly 2 lower branches where I could cut the top back so it does not expend its energy towards that. In the end I would carve down the front some and split to feel like those two back branches started lower on that part.

Beyond that I would just remove any branches I clearly wont use, and pull down or wire out adding more movement to the remaining ones. Some of which will be grown for several seasons to get better taper between the base and the tree.

 

[ForrestW]

This side, which still feels like the back to me mainly because the strong heavy mass still moves to the back– but I agree that that can change as I grow out more branches. On this view I showed the same 3 “possible” removals from the other point of view and the additional shortening of the lower right branch. Again there would likely be simple cuts this year “if” I do this and then once the tree and those secondary branches have time to get more established I would do the heavy carving. Also not visible from this photo is the big branch on the left, would have some carving on the harsh elbow as well in the next few seasons. It is currently a more recent flush cut and I think it would be a more interesting angle.

As I stated in the previous post I am grateful for the opinions and if you disagree or would cut it somewhere else please feel free to share. I will do my best to continue this thread so over the next 5+ seasons