American Bonsai Society Announcement

[my nellie]

My intention is not to create a discussion/argument....
In this hostile days that we are living all around the world, I just felt it was my obligation to share this with people who share the same passion/enjoyment/art/craftsmanship/...../..... (or at least this is what we think we are doing)
You can take it as a means to express my protest.

On FB

American Bonsai Society
7 ώρες ·
Sad situation that transpired last weekend:
Last weekend, to the shock and dismay of nearly all in the bonsai community, Juan Andrade announced via Facebook that he and his fiancée had returned to Costa Rica to live,
because they felt increasingly slandered by some referring to them as ‘Illegals” (they are not) and maliciously disparaging Juan’s talents. This apparently had been occurring for
over a year, and was causing them both to feel not only unwelcome here in the US, but also a personal loss of dignity at constantly having to answer such allegations.
Anyone who has spent even five minutes in the company of Juan can attest to his intelligence, bonsai skills, kindness and humility. He is top notch both as a person and as a bonsai
professional. The outpouring of support via social media is a testament to his skills and personality. And yet the damage is done.
We at ABS are horrified that such a situation has come to pass. Bonsai is a hobby developed by foreigners, taught to us by foreigners, and has now become a global art form.
It is diametrically opposed to the ultimate pursuit of such an art to in any way speak or behave in an exclusionary manner. Saboro Kato, venerable Japanese bonsai master and
founder of the World Bonsai Friendship Federation, famously stated, “Bonsai No Kokoro” - roughly translatable as, bonsai created from deep in your heart and from veneration
of nature has no ego.
Malicious, slanderous, xenophobic speech or behavior has no place in American Bonsai. We at ABS will not stand for it in our organization, and we implore all in our community to
use bonsai, this greatest of art forms, as a vehicle for peace and inclusion.
Karen Harkaway (outgoing ABS president)
Mark Fields (incoming ABS president)

 

[hemmy]

Thank you for posting for those of us not on Facebook.

 

[Nybonsai12]

They should really just name names so clubs know who not to book.

 

[coh]

I heard about this yesterday and thought about starting a thread, so thanks for doing so. Despicable acts by a number of individuals in Florida, though one in particular has been implicated as the ring leader. Apparently Juan isn't the first bonsai professional that has been targeted by this group, though the attacks on him were different and involved his not being an American citizen...and ultimately resulted in his leaving the country. I don't know all the details but I know there is an investigation ongoing and several individuals has been asked to resign from positions in the ABS. Apparently they have refused to do so.

Hopefully all the names come out. One of them is a well known blogger.

 

[rockm]

WTF? Can't believe this crap is happening. Those Florida people should be ashamed of themselves, but I suspect are probably the opposite. If their actions led to this, they should certainly be REMOVED from ABS, not asked to resign. No room for any kind of intimidation of this sort.

 

[Anthony]

Possibly too much competition in a small field ????????
Good Day
Anthony

 

[coh]

WTF? Can't believe this crap is happening. Those Florida people should be ashamed of themselves, but I suspect are probably the opposite. If their actions led to this, they should certainly be REMOVED from ABS, not asked to resign. No room for any kind of intimidation of this sort.

I was told that more was being done and the investigation is ongoing, but it sounds like there were many witnesses to events and also an email trail that left no doubt as to what happened.

That said, it sounds like some individuals who were involved are also on the ABS board so...we'll see.

 

[rockm]

I was told that more was being done and the investigation is ongoing, but it sounds like there were many witnesses to events and also an email trail that left no doubt as to what happened.

That said, it sounds like some individuals who were involved are also on the ABS board so...we'll see.

That's just Great.... If it's true, it makes expulsion all the more necessary.

 

[Aaron the Great]

This kind of stuff really ticks me off. America is a nation that is supposed to be made from ALL peoples. Anymore it seems as though is you are not white or black and don't speak American English then you don't belong. That is a bunch of b.s. It all boils down to racism. The great cancer of society. I had to separate myself from my family because of it. I have many many friends of different race and culture. Hell I'm a redneck Okie and have been married to a German for 21 years. I became a ham radio operator so I could talk to the world. A couple of months ago I talked to this teenager in Africa that made his radio out of tv parts and its powered by an alternator attached to a fan to act as a wind generator to charge a car battery that powers the radio. In my head if you are from a different country, great that's awesome, teach me your culture while I teach you mine. If you don't have the papers to make you "legal" then lets work on getting that. If you only want to come here to break the law then to hell with you. America is supposed to be the one place in the world for people to come to make a better life. Unfortunately you have ass clowns that act out in hateful ways because of unwarranted hate of just because they are scared of someone different. In my eyes even though they call themselves American, they are the same as Isis, Al Qaeda and the like. If you are an immigrant in America, I apologize for the hate that you have experienced here. Not all Americans are like that, there are a lot of us that welcome you with open arms and hearts.

 

[SU2]

WTF? Can't believe this crap is happening. Those Florida people should be ashamed of themselves, but I suspect are probably the opposite. If their actions led to this, they should certainly be REMOVED from ABS, not asked to resign. No room for any kind of intimidation of this sort.

I just heard about this only it was in the context of *one person* *************, someone just updated that thread w/ a link here and now I'm seeing the official statement referring to multiple people - the idea of
************** harassing somebody just blows my mind, I've only met him in person once but he was exactly how he is on his blog- a good natured guy (and while I'm caucasian, most people think I'm latin american when they meet me, I'm darker than Juan is) And before you dismiss this as 'just from FL people', I'm not from FL I moved here after college / am from MA, and I've met racist/bigoted people here but Adam just seems like a great guy, the idea of him 'running someone out of the country' (or being part of a group doing that) is just shocking..

[EDIT]Removed by request of author[/EDIT]

 

[rockm]

I just heard about this only it was in the context of *one person* (adam lavigne), someone just updated that thread w/ a link here and now I'm seeing the official statement referring to multiple people - the idea of Adam Lavigne harassing somebody just blows my mind, I've only met him in person once but he was exactly how he is on his blog- a good natured guy (and while I'm caucasian, most people think I'm latin american when they meet me, I'm darker than Juan is) And before you dismiss this as 'just from FL people', I'm not from FL I moved here after college / am from MA, and I've met racist/bigoted people here but Adam just seems like a great guy, the idea of him 'running someone out of the country' (or being part of a group doing that) is just shocking..


Reddit thread I was referring to (I'm "neovngr" there)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bonsai/comments/8u8eow

Was hoping this wouldn't be posted. The REDDIT post is NOT an "official statement." I would be EXTREMELY careful in posting this...

 

[coh]

Was hoping this wouldn't be posted. The REDDIT post is NOT an "official statement." I would be EXTREMELY careful in posting this...

That's why I didn't say the name, but it's all over facebook from people who are apparently involved in the investigation and have first hand knowledge of events. Sounds like he was the main player but not the only one. If @Bonsai Nut wants to edit this out, feel free...but it's already been widely disseminated.

It sounds like previous events with other professionals may have been driven by a combination of economic interest (i.e. they were taking someone else's business) and some type of jealousy, similar to what I've been seeing here lately concerning bonsai professionals. But with Juan, things escalated in a major way...still partly driven by the above factors, but now with the added racial angle.

 

[substratum]

I've lived in Florida most of my life (spent my early years in Peru), have done business in all 67 Florida Counties, and find this story bizarre given how deeply Hispanic Florida's roots and cultural origins are. We have Hispanics (Latino's for you USA West-coasters) in literally all parts of the state, not just south and central Florida. Heck, Miami-Dade was the first major metropolitan area in the USA to cross the threshold (early 2000s) where the majority of people speak a first language other than English, and yes, that other first language is 90+% Spanish.

In short, if Hispanic culture rubs you the wrong way, don't move to Florida. No, seriously, don't.

 

[petegreg]

One of them is a well known blogger.

Oh, no.

 

[Dav4]

I heard about this over the weekend after Juan posted on Facebook that he had left FL and moved back to Costa Rica, his native country. I was absolutely appalled/in shock over the allegations, but the bonsai community on Facebook absolutely blew up because of this. Not that anybody deserves to be slandered, but Juan is such a good and gifted individual... it's surreal to think someone would willfully set out to hurt him and his fiancee. In the end, when the dust has settled, if the allegations are proven to be true, the offender will have committed professional suicide... he will certainly not be welcome at my club as long as I have a say in it.

 

[Johnathan]

Possibly too much competition in a small field ????????
Good Day
Anthony

I dont know much about the bonsai community outside of B Nut, but this competition justify slander. Maybe in politics its understandable but HATE cannot and should not be justified.

As someone not familiar with many names or clubs, if any of these people doing or saying these things are actively selling bonsai trees or materials I'd like to know who they are.

Although I'm always looking for good deals, I'd rather not deal with bigots, or those who practice it.

 

[music~maker]

I've been unexpectedly drawn into a drama that I had nothing to do with, but as one of the reddit mods, I feel I now need to make a statement on this.

I became aware of Juan's situation last night via unsubstantiated 2nd and 3rd hand information. It came from people I trust, but still, I have no direct evidence of any specific individuals committing any specific action. Not saying it didn't happen, and not saying that it's not horrible if it did, just that I don't yet have enough information.

I counseled my fellow mod to take a deep breath and wait for all the facts to come out before posting this, and when I woke up, the post had already gone live. I know he meant well, and sometimes emotions get the best of us.

If the accusations are true, they are truly horrible and should be condemned. So let's get that out of the way. I, and all of the mods of the /r/bonsai sub, feel that there is no place for racism and xenophobia in the bonsai community whatsoever.

But all that said, Internet mob justice has often been wrong, and as a general rule, leaping to judgement based on 2nd and 3rd hand information is a terrible practice in my not so humble opinion. I strongly believe in due process, and also in allowing those accused to have a voice in defending accusations made against them.

I have locked and removed the thread in question, posted another that states essentially this, and like the rest of you, am now waiting to see how this all plays out.

I would encourage those in this thread who linked to that post to delete your comments here if you still can, and for everyone to hold off on naming names until such time as we know all the facts or have official statements from those involved.

Thanks,
~MM

 

[bonsaichile]

This kind of stuff really ticks me off. America is a nation that is supposed to be made from ALL peoples. Anymore it seems as though is you are not white or black and don't speak American English then you don't belong. That is a bunch of b.s. It all boils down to racism. The great cancer of society. I had to separate myself from my family because of it. I have many many friends of different race and culture. Hell I'm a redneck Okie and have been married to a German for 21 years. I became a ham radio operator so I could talk to the world. A couple of months ago I talked to this teenager in Africa that made his radio out of tv parts and its powered by an alternator attached to a fan to act as a wind generator to charge a car battery that powers the radio. In my head if you are from a different country, great that's awesome, teach me your culture while I teach you mine. If you don't have the papers to make you "legal" then lets work on getting that. If you only want to come here to break the law then to hell with you. America is supposed to be the one place in the world for people to come to make a better life. Unfortunately you have ass clowns that act out in hateful ways because of unwarranted hate of just because they are scared of someone different. In my eyes even though they call themselves American, they are the same as Isis, Al Qaeda and the like. If you are an immigrant in America, I apologize for the hate that you have experienced here. Not all Americans are like that, there are a lot of us that welcome you with open arms and hearts.

Thank you, man. As an inmigrant, I appreciate it. In my experience, most people in this country are decent and welcoming. But, since November 2016 I have seen the rats coming out of their cages: Confederate flags on cars, people making Nazi salutes when they see me (kids, 18-20, behaving like asshole, but all the same), you hear slurs and lies about inmigrants coming from elected officials. It is all very sad, really. I have been in this country for 20 years, but the debasement we have been witnessing in the last 2 years, the loss of moral compass and basic human decency, that I had not seen before.

 

[SU2]

Was hoping this wouldn't be posted. The REDDIT post is NOT an "official statement." I would be EXTREMELY careful in posting this...

If anyone w/ the power thinks it should be removed, I've got no problem with it (I can't edit after 20min) - were you worried about names or just about that post seeing daylight before it got removed? If the former, I disagree I think he needs to get in front of this and defend himself, these are serious charges that are being leveled w/o any specifics, on reddit he was accused and not given a chance to respond I thought the best thing to do is to simply get things in the open and set the record straight (the reddit thread turned into a circus where people were already past the idea of innocent/guilty and talking about how racism can't be tolerated etc etc, culpability has not been established anywhere yet the mood of lots of posts is already that something happened despite zero evidence of that....I know you're a vet, do you happen to have any personal knowledge of this situation? I'd be fine w/ this remaining a private matter but juan and the bonsai society made it public, am hoping to hear a refutation from the person I know who was accused..)

 

[SU2]

I've been unexpectedly drawn into a drama that I had nothing to do with, but as one of the reddit mods, I feel I now need to make a statement on this.

I became aware of Juan's situation last night via unsubstantiated 2nd and 3rd hand information. It came from people I trust, but still, I have no direct evidence of any specific individuals committing any specific action. Not saying it didn't happen, and not saying that it's not horrible if it did, just that I don't yet have enough information.

I counseled my fellow mod to take a deep breath and wait for all the facts to come out before posting this, and when I woke up, the post had already gone live. I know he meant well, and sometimes emotions get the best of us.

If the accusations are true, they are truly horrible and should be condemned. So let's get that out of the way. I, and all of the mods of the /r/bonsai sub, feel that there is no place for racism and xenophobia in the bonsai community whatsoever.

But all that said, Internet mob justice has often been wrong, and as a general rule, leaping to judgement based on 2nd and 3rd hand information is a terrible practice in my not so humble opinion. I strongly believe in due process, and also in allowing those accused to have a voice in defending accusations made against them.

I have locked and removed the thread in question, posted another that states essentially this, and like the rest of you, am now waiting to see how this all plays out.

I would encourage those in this thread who linked to that post to delete your comments here if you still can, and for everyone to hold off on naming names until such time as we know all the facts or have official statements from those involved.

Thanks,
~MM

Am unable to edit after 20min here, messaging a mod now (g'damnit I was trying to help and may've hurt fuuuuk)