Aftercare for collected western larch

[andrewiles]

I dug up several western larches this past weekend after finally getting a permit. First attempt at collecting anything. They were just beginning to show green, but not opened, so I think the timing was OK.

These were collected in Eastern Washington. The soil was extremely sandy and fell apart from the trunk and roots as soon as I lifted a tree. I feel like they are basically being bare rooted, on top of being heavily root pruned from the dig.

Here they are, packaged up


This is the worst one: all soil fell off in transit:


The others were better, but there is still not a lot of root material left. I potted them up in a sandy loam and trimmed the tops to reduce the foliage above the roots, like so:


I'm keeping them in dappled shade, and misted. Humidity this time of year is over 60%.

Any other recommendations to maximize the chance of success?

 

[Jorgens86]

Show us the rest of trees in pots. Looks interesting material.
You doing ok, just dont let them in full sun for now

 

[Forsoothe!]

There is no foliage that might desiccate the tree, so it should be in as much direct sunlight as possible to nurse the buds. It will then only inflate as many buds as the roots can support. Don't let it dry out, but it doesn't want soggy, either. Point the front at the sun to favor buds on that side (if that suits your prospective design).

 

[sorce]

Any other recommendations to maximize the chance of success?

I think this material is nice enough to have stopped at the first one, to ensure it's survival, and allow for changes in approach, to ensure survival of the later dug ones.

Not trying to rag on you, but after the soil fell off the first......

Don't know how to type this without sounding judgemental......

Believe "greed" as a sin, but also as "Ok to want something".

I feel like you let the sin of greed fuel impatience that may have led to you not actually fulfilling your want to have the trees, if they die.

Where if you allowed Patience to fuel this "ok to want something", you may have killed one or 2, but you would end up with at least 4 good trees in time.

This is an example of my idea of "selfishness vs. "super selfishness". Which to me is a more real representation of "selfish", since it is not always negative, but we have come to learn "selfishness" as only a negative trait.

To understand this more ..

Search results for query: Super selfish

www.bonsainut.com

The Selfish get 0 trees.
The SuperSelfish get many trees.

Be SuperGreedy, don't allow this truly negative virtue of impatience guide a waste of your time.

Funny that in order to truly Be Patient you must not believe in time and we are also trying to save time, but why should we if we don't even believe in it!?

Sorce

 

[andrewiles]

I think this material is nice enough to have stopped at the first one, to ensure it's survival, and allow for changes in approach, to ensure survival of the later dug ones.

Not trying to rag on you, but after the soil fell off the first......

Don't know how to type this without sounding judgemental......

Believe "greed" as a sin, but also as "Ok to want something".

I feel like you let the sin of greed fuel impatience that may have led to you not actually fulfilling your want to have the trees, if they die.

Where if you allowed Patience to fuel this "ok to want something", you may have killed one or 2, but you would end up with at least 4 good trees in time.

This is an example of my idea of "selfishness vs. "super selfishness". Which to me is a more real representation of "selfish", since it is not always negative, but we have come to learn "selfishness" as only a negative trait.

To understand this more ..

Search results for query: Super selfish

www.bonsainut.com

The Selfish get 0 trees.
The SuperSelfish get many trees.

Be SuperGreedy, don't allow this truly negative virtue of impatience guide a waste of your time.

Funny that in order to truly Be Patient you must not believe in time and we are also trying to save time, but why should we if we don't even believe in it!?

Sorce

I was going to dig up only one or two for those reasons, actually. Ended up with more because the area I was in was national forest, sold for logging, and was actively being logged. Judging by the adjacent areas these trees would have been mowed down this summer anyways.

These are also fairly small, young trees. It would be fun to dig up a gnarly old larch someday but I don't plan on that until I feel confident I can keep it alive.

 

[andrewiles]

Show us the rest of trees in pots. Looks interesting material.
You doing ok, just dont let them in full sun for now

Here are a few more:

 

[Jorgens86]

Niceeee

 

[Atom#28]

Ended up with more because the area I was in was national forest

Eastern Wa is not giving permits for live transplants in national forests. They haven’t for several years now. Please don’t take trees without a permit. Check out Coeur D’alene National forest. They give permits for free!

 

[andrewiles]

Eastern Wa is not giving permits for live transplants in national forests. They haven’t for several years now. Please don’t take trees without a permit. Check out Coeur D’alene National forest. They give permits for free!

Some districts are. They are not free, but it's just a few dollars per plant. I picked up a permit several weeks ago for the Methow Valley Ranger District. They mailed it to my house. Call them and talk to Chelsea. https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/okawen/about-forest/offices

 

[Atom#28]

Some districts are. They are not free, but it's just a few dollars per plant. I picked up a permit several weeks ago for the Methow Valley Ranger District. They mailed it to my house. Call them and talk to Chelsea. https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/okawen/about-forest/offices

That’s awesome news! The ranger at Colville said none of the WA forests are permitting. They told me that last year as well. Thank you!

 

[andrewiles]

Interesting results so far. Three different response categories from the trees.

First: nice long bright green foliage. Not much elongation but otherwise looks healthy.


Second: firm green/blue foliage, but small needles that clearly had truncated growth. No elongation.


Third: Some browned tips, but now seeing new growth at the center of many whirls.


Too many variables to know the underlying causes yet:

• Different root masses. But it's clear that trees with greater root mass are (gasp) happier
• Different amounts of top reduction. For the most part I reduced the top to match the reduction in root mass.
• Different soils. I have one in pure pumice, one in pure Sphagnum, some in sandy loam
• Different ages. Not really sure how old each is, but some clearly have older bark. The older ones are in the less vigorous department
• Different budding stages at collection. I think all were in the right window for repotting, but some were showing more green than others. The ones with more green at collection generally have longer needles now.

My observations so far:

• Cautiously optimistic most are going to make it. But growth will be anemic this year.
• More roots at collection equals healthier tree. Don't skimp on digging up every root you can. These were all bare rooted from sandy/rocky soil.
• New growth seems to abort shortly after transplant, so timing impacts needle length. My _guess_ is that if the buds are already partially opened, you'll get full length needles but they may brown due to insufficient water from the roots. And if the buds are not yet showing green they may not open enough to support the plant while it recovers.
• Here in the PNW we are occasionally seeing 80 degree days. Any bright sun over 75 or so causes some wilt. So bright sun on cool days, afternoon shade on warmer days. At least until they show more vigor.
• They seem to be able to put out a second flush of growth, after the aforementioned abort at collection. My guess is that seeing that second flush is an indication the tree is beginning to recover, vs. just hanging on.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I don't know anything about Western Larch, but it occurs to me that your substrates preculde holding moisture. It may be interesting to try to avoid wilting by giving lots of water. I don't think it's possible to over-water in the heat of summer, especially in hot weather. I don't mean standing in water, I mean drenching with a hose as often as it takes to short-cut wilting. What say you?

 

[andrewiles]

I'll keep a close eye on it, but I believe the roots are being kept moist. I'm watering by hand or by sprinkler each day, and here in Seattle soils don't dry out quickly on their own this time of year (70s, high humidity).

This is my first time collecting something and it's difficult to get a good root mass with these trees. They have long horizontal roots slicing through very rocky mountainside soil. I hesitate to call it soil. So they are losing a lot of roots when I dig them up. I think the sensitivity to sun is due to the very compromised root system. But happy to hear otherwise from those in the know...

I've also read that misting periodically can help, so I may use one of my timers to do that periodically, esp. as temps warm up.

 

[mattspinniken]

These are nice, I hope they do well for you.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I don't know anything about Western Larch, but it occurs to me that your substrates preculde holding moisture. It may be interesting to try to avoid wilting by giving lots of water. I don't think it's possible to over-water in the heat of summer, especially in hot weather. I don't mean standing in water, I mean drenching with a hose as often as it takes to short-cut wilting. What say you?

 

[LCD35]

How have these fared, in the year since?

 

[andrewiles]

How have these fared, in the year since?

Pretty good. It's been a learning experience. I think my success rate in the first year was only around 60%. This year I should be above 90%.

Three key things I learned:

• More soil. Duh! Not just more roots. Bare rooting is tough and even a small amount of attached soil with fine roots makes a big difference.
• Mist and no direct sun. Automatic misting makes a huge difference. It reduces the required root mass at collection by a large amount. Most important thing I learned this year.
• Don't hesitate to reduce the top. Should be in line with the root reduction, which is always going to be a lot. Last year I didn't reduce the tops enough and this exacerbated the lack of root support for the foliage.

The trees posted above are the unwilling subjects of ongoing experiments. Some different soil types, pruning approaches and so on. Not many pictures from this summer but here's one of the trees. It was growing well so I decided to lop off the top. But rather than do it in one go I wanted to try half-chop I've seen elsewhere. Supposed to help it heal faster. We'll see. I'll finish the chop next spring.



For the second year of collection I'm aiming for quality over quanity. My patio is rapidly running out of room. Here's a larch from this year:



And here's my updated approach to packaging after collection, keeping in mind the poor tree is normally hiking down a mountain and bouncing down a dirt road. I learned the hard way all those fine roots break off easily if the soil ball falls away before the tree is potted up. So burlap tied very tightly around the soil mass with nylon twine.

 

[LCD35]

Wow, that second to last photo is awesome.