Advice for starting a small Mugo

[Bart99]

I'm sure this info exists on the site, but I can't locate it if it's out there.

I just bought a cheap, 2.8 quart Mugo pumilio from Lowes and I'm not sure what I should do. The trunk is pretty thin and uninteresting but there are a lot of branches to work with. There's a whorl of branches just above the soil line, and another one about an inch or two above that, and a mini whorl up near the top.

Should I:

1) Repot into a larger pot to try to get some thickness?
2) Plant it in the ground to try and get some thickness?
3) Remove 1/3 of the branches and try to find the tree within?
4) None of the above?

Basically, I'm not sure if I should let it grow and cut it down!

Thanks!

PS - if there are some good starter threads on Mugo Pines, can someone point me in that direction? I found the "Mungo Train" thread, but it's 36 pages long and I'm suffering from a combination of information overload and not finding info on a newly bought tree.

 

[whfarro]

Go to "Resources " section of this forum and read Vance's tutorials. That and anything else you can find by @Vance Wood

 

[Potawatomi13]

Seconded! Also good close up photos of tree very helpful for helpers on this site. With can or bottle in picture for size comparison.

 

[ConorDash]

I'm sure this info exists on the site, but I can't locate it if it's out there.

I just bought a cheap, 2.8 quart Mugo pumilio from Lowes and I'm not sure what I should do. The trunk is pretty thin and uninteresting but there are a lot of branches to work with. There's a whorl of branches just above the soil line, and another one about an inch or two above that, and a mini whorl up near the top.

Should I:

1) Repot into a larger pot to try to get some thickness?
2) Plant it in the ground to try and get some thickness?
3) Remove 1/3 of the branches and try to find the tree within?
4) None of the above?

Basically, I'm not sure if I should let it grow and cut it down!

Thanks!

PS - if there are some good starter threads on Mugo Pines, can someone point me in that direction? I found the "Mungo Train" thread, but it's 36 pages long and I'm suffering from a combination of information overload and not finding info on a newly bought tree.

I'd suggest looking at other non-professional pictures of the same tree online, that way you can get an idea and a feel for what you'd like to achieve. When you have an aim, then you can work on trying to achieve it, slowly..
I think it's a lot easier to work towards a clear aim, than have none and feel like you don't know what's going on.

Saying that, it's not easy, I know. I've tried taking my own advice and I'm still not 100% on what I want to achieve with my own little Chinese Elm. But I do think it's a good way to go.

Post pictures if you can! 100x easier to advise for those on here who can.

 

[sorce]

You can look at my Pugo Mine thread.

I had a whopper of a knuckle that I've so far had success removing branches off of.

I would Probly whack most of the first whorl. Save two for you future tree...

And leave the top fully intact, for a sacrifice to build trunk...

Just wire it out of the way of the bottom so the bottom gets sun.

Sorce

 

[Bart99]

Thanks all!

I didn't even know about the Resources section, so I'll head there now.

Sorce - - do you have a link to that thread, or the title of it?

Thanks again!

 

[Bart99]

You can look at my Pugo Mine thread.

I had a whopper of a knuckle that I've so far had success removing branches off of.

I would Probly whack most of the first whorl. Save two for you future tree...

And leave the top fully intact, for a sacrifice to build trunk...

Just wire it out of the way of the bottom so the bottom gets sun.

Sorce

Cancel my request for a link or thread name........on the 10th reading I just realized you wrote "Pugo Mine" not "Mugo Pine" as my brain was telling me it said. Yesterday I couldn't spell, today I'm dyslexic, I hope I make it to Saturday!


I'm still confused about thickening the trunk. Is the goal to get light onto the trunk itself (that's what you seem to be suggesting above) or get as much photosynthesis happening (by leaving all the branches and needles in place)?

Also, would planting it out in the garden be a good move? All the photos I've seen have been trees in pots.

 

[M. Frary]

Put us up a picture so we can see what you've got. You need imagination to work with mugo pines. You need to pick the trunk line out of the mess of branches to start out styling one.

 

[sorce]

This is what I'm picturing.


Just guy wire...or regular wire the top whorl away from the bottom whorl..
Yellow arrow.

And select a couple branches to make your future tree from as Mike said.
Orange lines.

I'd cut all but two of the bottom branches straight away....cuz you got the top still.

Once the top thickens your trunk enough...and the low part is strong and branches up again...you can cut it off.

ISH.

Pics!

Sorce

 

[Bart99]

So here are some pics. I think the outside ones show better that the inside ones but none of them are great.

The only difference between the outside shots and the inside shots are that I removed two very low branches that were almost below the soil line.

 

[Bart99]

I missed one of the outside shots somehow.

 

[M. Frary]

See that branch coming out of the soil on the right? That means there is more trunk under the soil. In nurseries most times they have a tendency to cover some trunk every time they put the tree in a larger pot. I would dig down until I reached the point at which the roots are coming out at at the base of the trunk. Then you will be able to assess what you have and be able to go from there.

 

[sorce]

After fathers day.

You can see what to keep and not better at repot.

Nice!

Sorce

 

[Bart99]

See that branch coming out of the soil on the right? That means there is more trunk under the soil. .

Did you mean on the left? (in the second and final pictures)

So it's safe to rake back the soil to get to the base of the trunk? I'm probably getting trees confused, but I thought I read that this could be bad for the tree.

 

[Bart99]

After fathers day.

You can see what to keep and not better at repot.

What should I do after Father's Day? Repot? Do the wiring you suggested? Or do the digging that Sorce suggested?

Thanks!

 

[petegreg]

Look here, here is the treasure hidden: http://www.bonsainut.com/resources/compiled-vance-wood-on-mugo-pines.23/

 

[M. Frary]

All the roots on top of the soil are from down lower. They're not coming out of the trunk above that branch but from below it. When it was up potted at the nursery they put it in the bucket low then tossed soil on top. The roots have colonized every inch of available soil.
You won't hurt it by rooting around a little and moving the dirt from the base of the tree. In fact it's very wise to do this because the next step you're going to be told is to cut the bottom 1/2 of the rootball off. If the base is lower than you think you run the risk if cutting all of the roots off of the tree. Now that will be detrimental to the health of the tree for sure.
You can do this now. It's how you select these trees at the nursery. Almost all are buried the same way. Vance Wood taught me the best way to look at nursery mugo pines is actually with your fingers.
The cutting of the bottom half of the mass of roots comes after Father's day.

 

[Bart99]

Thanks Mike! I tried to do a decent inspection of the roots at the nursery (actually Lowes hardware store) but I stupidly went on my way home from work and it was a 90 + degree day so I rushed the process and probably didn't get the best tree they had.

The question I still have, and that I didn't see covered in Vance Wood's "resources" post is, do you do trunk thickening on these guys before you cut the roots and put them into a bonsai pot? I was under the impression for most (?) trees you grow out the trunk to nearly the final thickness you want before you do any drastic cutting on the top or on the roots. Does that hold true for Mugos?

 

[M. Frary]

Thanks Mike! I tried to do a decent inspection of the roots at the nursery (actually Lowes hardware store) but I stupidly went on my way home from work and it was a 90 + degree day so I rushed the process and probably didn't get the best tree they had.

The question I still have, and that I didn't see covered in Vance Wood's "resources" post is, do you do trunk thickening on these guys before you cut the roots and put them into a bonsai pot? I was under the impression for most (?) trees you grow out the trunk to nearly the final thickness you want before you do any drastic cutting on the top or on the roots.

I have 2 that I want thicker trunks on. My plan for them is to let the roots to escape the pot by setting it on the ground and not moving it. The roots will "escape" out of the holes in the bottom of the bucket. I'll leave them there for however long it takes the trunks to get to the desired thickness.
By doing this it does 2 things. The trunk will fatten up faster by letting the roots run and when I do lift it I still have a mass of potbound roots to work with in the bucket.
Most times though we try to select these trees with trunks already grown to desired thickness.

 

[Bart99]

Thanks Mike.

Why wouldn't you just replant them into the ground without the pot? Are the potbound roots preferable to "free running" roots for bonsai?