Advice for new JBP nursery stock

[lupin]

Hey all. Just got my first tree and went for a JBP. Wondering if that was a poor pick but regardless... It is still in the small nursery pot and I am wondering how to go about repotting. The plan is to slip pot it into a pond basket with akadama/lavarock/pumice mix. Was going to do some very light trimming/combing on the exterior of the root ball but leave old soil mostly intact. Was also going to wire the base for stability. I am questioning myself because the candles have already significantly extended but I figure the risk is less than leaving it in the nursery pot until next spring. I am also wondering if I should decandle the apical branch (aside from the largest one). Still unsure of what my plans are for this tree or if I will even be able to keep it alive. Tree is 3 yrs old per scenic hill farms. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I have tried to comb the forums and internet for info but feel like I am going in circles so I figured I may as well ask directly. I am in Boise ID and temps are starting to get in the high 70s F during the day if that helps. Happy to provide more photos/info. Thanks!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

but I figure the risk is less than leaving it in the nursery pot until next spring

Why?
The risk of leaving it in the pot is low. The risk of it not pushing through a repot is high.
Keeping it alive until fall is a good starting point.

If you want to do more work, I'd try a different type of plant like a juniper, in which there's more wiggling room for out of season work.

 

[lupin]

Why?
The risk of leaving it in the pot is low. The risk of it not pushing through a repot is high.
Keeping it alive until fall is a good starting point.

If you want to do more work, I'd try a different type of plant like a juniper, in which there's more wiggling room for out of season work.

hmm. I guess I shouldn't say risky so much as just missing my opportunity for any root development for another year. The soil in the nursery pot feels quite compact so I was a little worried about drainage and also it being rootbound. If I were to slip pot it but leave the root ball entirely undisturbed does that still pose risk? I by no means am married to doing any work on it right now, I just don't want to blunder on missing a window of opportunity. Also just don't want to kill the tree so if leaving it undisturbed is the best move then that's what I will do!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I have an 8 year old JRP in a pot three times smaller than that. You can pot it up in a larger pot without disturbing anything, but that would give the roots room to explode with growth and make it more difficult to scale down later. A well known, but buried in bonsai circles, secret is that organic soil produces the best fine ramified roots one can wish for. I grow all my pines in organic at the start. Drainage, sure, it can be an issue if you water organic soil like you would water a inorganic soil. So the key thing there is to.. Just water it like you water organic soil? When it gets dry, that is.
I see good growth, so it's not root bound. Root bound in my book means that growth is inhibited by a lack of space for the roots to grow in. I cut down 1 gallon containers this year and repotted some juniper whips from 1.0 into 0.2 gallon pots; way smaller. There were plenty of roots on the outside, but few in the core of the soil. These roots looked "constrained" by the edges of the pot to an untrained eye, but if you watch closely, what roots do is look for the edge of the pot first and then branch from wherever further back. The roots are their probes, their eyes and their fingers; they wouldn't find the edge of the pot if they didn't grow there on purpose, and without that probing behavior they wouldn't form dense mats in the places where they can.

Missing a window of opportunity.. You had the opportunity to get a JBP, you took that opportunity. That's a win in my book! It's growing and it looks healthy (apart from the missing candle on that one branch) so I would like to change your mind: you're just in time for decandling and ahead of time for a fall repot. Since it's in organic soil, you wouldn't have to water it very often, which gives you time for plenty of other things.

Developing pines from this stage is a marathon. If you skip a year on development, like many of us do, we tend to gain more than we lose. On old trees that's a different story since they lack the rejuvenation part that young ones have.

You're on the right track. One piece of advice I'd like to offer is to use a wooden chopstick as a soil moisture probe; if the stick is dry you water, if the stick is damp you water if you want to, if the stick is wet then you don't water.
If that soil for any reason becomes hydrophobic and water just falls through it, give it a good soak in a bucket of water. Sometimes that happens. I dunk all of my trees a couple times every summer, even in inorganic soil.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Welcome!

I just want to share what I've been learning. It helps me to go over this stuff, as this is all a learning experience for me too. I have 3 and 4 year old JBP from seed, and I've really enjoyed working with them, as they respond very predictably.

I think JBP is a great tree for beginners, because so much is known about the species.

We're heading into decandling time, which people do in May/June in the northern hemisphere.
It's your choice:
1. Let the candles stay. I've been told you should not decandle young pines, allowing them grow and thicken without setback. Trunk development comes before branch development.
2. Cut just above the base of a candle to gain branching at that location. This will allow branching, but will be a step back as far as thickening the trunk.
3. Cut below the candle into last year's needles to get new shoots further down. This will allow branching, but will be a step back as far as thickening the trunk.

It really depends on your goals. Do you want a small shohin-sized bonsai or an impressive bonsai with a nice, fat, tapered trunk?

As for repotting, it can be done in fall or spring with JBP, although spring might be best? Wiring is also done in fall.

These bonsaify videos are super helpful, especially if you're going for a smaller shohin-sized tree, as he is working with trees in the same stage of development. Worth the watch.

 

[Shibui]

I have no problem with slip potting such a tree provided the slip pot is done correctly - and the procedure you outlined, including teasing outer roots so they move into the new soil is one of the keys. Cutting/ breaking outer roots will not jeopardise the tree. Any tree can stand the loss of 10% of roots at any time of year but slip potting without teasing out some roots CAN have unforeseen disastrous consequences.

However, getting more growth is NOT root development. Trees growing in tall, skinny pots invariably have roots that are twisted and tangled. You may be able to untangle while those roots are thin but after they thicken it becomes much more difficult. Some will even fuse together as they thicken.
Slip potting will usually give faster top growth. Is that worth it if the roots end up as a mess?

The soil in the nursery pot feels quite compact so I was a little worried about drainage and also it being rootbound.

This can be a risk. Also there's no real scale and no mention of the current pot size so it is hard to judge if keeping this tree alive in this pot is likely to be easy or a challenge through Summer. IMHO, a slightly oversize pot is always safer, especially for beginners.

As for work on the trunk and branches, your tree will still have plenty of opportunities next year. Leaving it unpruned will give better growth and opportunity to have a really healthy tree so you'll get better response when you do work on it.

Based on the growth pattern I'd agree with the 3 year age but relatively small size for that age. Looks like they grow mainly for landscape, hence the tall, skinny tubes. Also appears they may pick any dodgy ones out to sell as pre-bonsai. The sample photo of 3 year old is certainly a lot more impressive than the one they sent you.

 

[lupin]

Wanted to update on this tree as well as get advice on how to proceed design wise. Didn't take long for me to realize that this tree was not the best material from the get go but keeping with it for now as I only have 5 trees. Also acquired another JBP over summer.

Branch 3 bifurcates right at the origin of branch 2 and I plan to cut it off in fall because it is causing swelling at the node. Branch 2 is the strongest lower branch but there is no secondary branching off of it for 7 or so inches. The main trunk has become quite vigorous after slip potting in may. As it stands the main trunk is my sacrifice. It has put out a pretty strong second flush. I am wondering if I keep with this as my sacrifice branch or if I chop it to the one year node this fall, make branch 2 my sacrifice and hope for back budding. My other thought is making branch 2 the main trunk but I would need back budding in those first 7 inches for a first branch and it is also at a 90 degree angle currently which might be hard to avoid it looking very awkward. I am also curious if I keep the entirety of the summer flush and wait until they have hardened off to remove all but one or if I decandle all but one now. Picture 3 is the second flush on the main extension. I also plan to do some defoliation to the sacrifice in the fall to try and increase the vigor of branches 1 and 4 next growing season. I am not sure if they will be of any use because they are quite leggy but they will serve as a backup if I don't get any back budding I suppose. At the very least I am keeping this tree as a learning tool. Hope my descriptions aren't too confusing. The second tree I acquired below seems to have some potential though.


This is JBP #2. It had some dying needles on the lower branching when I received it. The sacrifice is quite vigorous. It seems to be doing okay but has not put out a second flush yet. I plan on this one being a shohin due to the tight and plentiful lower branching and it seems that is what the original owner had planned. The plan for fall is to cut off the two red side branches as well as the purple main trunk extension. I want to keep green because I think it may get very tippy if I keep letting it grow sideways. I also plan to do some defoliation of the sacrifice branch to try and keep the lower branching healthy. Don't think I have a specific question for this one, more just making sure I am headed in the right direction. If you made it this far thanks and all suggestions are very welcome.