Acer palmatum

[ConorDash]

Hello,

So here we are again! But this time, there will be action.
I've had a few threads on my Maple so far, which Ill reread again any way but I wanted to start a fresh here just for organisation purposes.
The previous comments on threads, have not gone to waste, don't worry. TImes changes, trees do and people do it would be good to see new opinions.
The album of new pics, taken this morning are here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmdYFQos

And here are some of the ones embed for ease.

DSC_0027 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0021 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0019 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0026 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0023 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0025 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0024 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

So I have not touched this tree in about 2 years now. Repotted last spring, I think it is in a good condition to do some major work, which is what is needed. The chopped moss I put on last spring and soon after, I saw some white fresh roots coming through the surface. I took this as a good sign!
Varying heights of trunk chops are what have been suggested. The 2 large wounds high up, either will be chopped off with the trunk or if not, need to be sorted. One way or another.

I love the base and bottom of the trunk, the movement in it. Perhaps this is not the most ideal for bonsai but I enjoy this, a lot. It is rather taper less though, so a chop would be best I think. Im happy to spend the years, making this tree the best it can be. Also thread grafting was suggested, for nebari.

Have at it, what do you think?

(Unrelated, on the first pic I noticed some small yellow holes, just below the large major wound. Unsure what they are, don't look too concerning yet...)
@dirk hoorelbeke @sorce @BobbyLane

 

[ysrgrathe]

Nice movement indeed. That wire over the nebari concerns me. Best not to do that; if you must put some padding. It will likely cut in otherwise.

 

[BobbyLane]

I wouldnt chop.
well, looking at the branch lines and movement i think its a little similar to a hornbeam i just posted. the question is do you want an informal broom or a taller, informal upright. just like my hornbeam, it can be both. so what do you like?
this hornbeam ive styled to look like a natural tree, not hijacking the thread at all, but it helps if you look at what others do with similar material, i always say this to folks

informal upright
26281587948_cda7fe8ba8_o4 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

informal broom
26281587948_cda7fe8ba8_o by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

informal upright
2018-02-09_11-58-46 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

informal broom
Quercus - Oak by Ashley Wood, on Flickr

personally i think it will make a great informal broom
25313921237_f9f879df7f_o by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

if you went more upright i like the blue line as the main flow of the trunk. if it was mine the branch in red would bother me and id probably cut it back to a thinner shoot. the yellow lines are where id begin to shape the structure from

 

[Rob_phillips]

Hi connor.
Can you not take it to a bonsai professional or a workshop there are loads down south in and around London town.
Try asking lee verhorevoort for some advice maybe messge him on Facebook he is very good at what he does.
I have found i have learned so much from taking my trees up to greenwood in Nottingham. There good at answering any questions you have even if you feel they are stupid questions and also they can offer professional advice

 

[AlainK]

To me, there are two branches that should definitely be pruned out:



Then, after the big cut, there are two branches about the same girth. One is swaying its way to the right, in accordance to the initial movement of the base of the trunk, the other one is very straight. I would remove it.

In the long term, sthg like:

 

[ConorDash]

Nice movement indeed. That wire over the nebari concerns me. Best not to do that; if you must put some padding. It will likely cut in otherwise.

Yeah, this has been said before and I knew it but it was given to me by a reputable salesman so when repotting I automatically did the same. Looking at it, it is no time causing any damage yet but in future, I won’t do that. Or I’d use padding, cos there’s no where else to anchor it down to.

 

[ConorDash]

I wouldnt chop.
well, looking at the branch lines and movement i think its a little similar to a hornbeam i just posted. the question is do you want an informal broom or a taller, informal upright. just like my hornbeam, it can be both. so what do you like?
this hornbeam ive styled to look like a natural tree, not hijacking the thread at all, but it helps if you look at what others do with similar material, i always say this to folks

informal upright
26281587948_cda7fe8ba8_o4 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

informal broom
26281587948_cda7fe8ba8_o by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

informal upright
2018-02-09_11-58-46 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

informal broom
Quercus - Oak by Ashley Wood, on Flickr

personally i think it will make a great informal broom
25313921237_f9f879df7f_o by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

if you went more upright i like the blue line as the main flow of the trunk. if it was mine the branch in red would bother me and id probably cut it back to a thinner shoot. the yellow lines are where id begin to shape the structure from

The informal broom was what I always had in mind, or at least that’s shape.
Shorter and wider.
I’d like a wide canopy on it, originally using that lower down odd looking branch (which Alain and others have suggested to cut), to help form and stretch out the canopy. Although I think it’d need thickening to not look odd.

You say not to chop.. but make many reductions and removals of branches, and carve or cut back those ugly wounds so they heal over less unsightly?
Thanks for virt, very helpful. You wasn’t highjacking, it is extremely useful to have other pics to compare to.

 

[ConorDash]

To me, there are two branches that should definitely be pruned out:

View attachment 177341

Then, after the big cut, there are two branches about the same girth. One is swaying its way to the right, in accordance to the initial movement of the base of the trunk, the other one is very straight. I would remove it.

In the long term, sthg like:

View attachment 177342

Thanks for your post. I can definitely see that and that does seem like a very “Bonsai tree” shape, the movement from left to right at the top. Seems almost too perfect. Do you really think that is possible?

 

[BobbyLane]

I would keep those branches, as long as they arent causing any ugly swellings i would let them thicken and develop, they will be good for the trunk and the nebari and also in mimicking a low spreading deciduous with a wide canopy. when wiring, wire all the tips upwards, everything up and out. you can cut back some of the shoots in the crown so as to let light down below and cut back the thicker bit in red i showed you. scarring isnt anything to worry about, looks fine.

 

[AlainK]

Do you really think that is possible?

I think so, yes.

The only issue is the first branch on the left in my virt. It's hard to tell if there's a branch that can replace the straight one that I would prefer to cut out. But when you prune a maple hard, and that's what I would do, it's very likely that dormant buds will come out.

Anyway, I would definitely get rid of the two branches that I marked with a red dot: they're out of shape in the overall design, and the longer you keep them, the uglier the scars will look - unless you're a fan of decaying trees of course, you know, the artificial gothic feel.

Personally, I find it odd on most deciduous, and even totally out of the question on maples -even if you call them "uro" or any exotic names. To me it's totally un-naturalistik

 

[sorce]

no where else to anchor it down to.

I've contemplated a little brass eyehook drilled into the base to tie thru.....

Either way you can likely remove that wire now and the tree won't go anywhere, by remove, I mean just untied and hidden, or cut flush with the soil.

Looking healthy!

Sorce

 

[StoneCloud]

Sorce beat me to it but I 2nd untying and cutting that wire. At this point I think the tree will be fine without it

Wonderful tree Conor and it really does have a lot of potential!!

Take your time make it great !!!

 

[ConorDash]

I would keep those branches, as long as they arent causing any ugly swellings i would let them thicken and develop, they will be good for the trunk and the nebari and also in mimicking a low spreading deciduous with a wide canopy. when wiring, wire all the tips upwards, everything up and out. you can cut back some of the shoots in the crown so as to let light down below and cut back the thicker bit in red i showed you. scarring isnt anything to worry about, looks fine.

When you say keep those branches, which ones? Essentially, all? Or the lower ones which were suggested to cut?
That lowest one I was talking about, I kinda like.. but Alain is also right, if I removed it later it would cause a worse scar. It I should quite low down, perhaps I should just get rid now.
But as I said, if it could thicken (which seems like it’ll take forever) I’d like it to provide more to the canopy and bring it out in a sweeping wide low canopy.

Definite thinning of the apical branches. no reductions in length of branches? Cos I guess if I want thinkening, should keep them untouched.

 

[ConorDash]

I've contemplated a little brass eyehook drilled into the base to tie thru.....

Either way you can likely remove that wire now and the tree won't go anywhere, by remove, I mean just untied and hidden, or cut flush with the soil.

Looking healthy!

Sorce

Sorce beat me to it but I 2nd untying and cutting that wire. At this point I think the tree will be fine without it

Wonderful tree Conor and it really does have a lot of potential!!

Take your time make it great !!!

I will do that you are right, I don’t see how it’d move or cause a problem now to remove that wire.
Have either of you any thoughts on progressing this tree, or it’s next steps?

Would you gentleman like to throw out an opinion? @MACH5 @M. Frary . If you don’t mind.
You’ve spoken to me about this before Mach and M. Frary, I just love your no bullshitting attitude to things. It does well at balancing out perspective, in my mind .

 

[BobbyLane]

When you say keep those branches, which ones? Essentially, all? Or the lower ones which were suggested to cut?
That lowest one I was talking about, I kinda like.. but Alain is also right, if I removed it later it would cause a worse scar. It I should quite low down, perhaps I should just get rid now.
But as I said, if it could thicken (which seems like it’ll take forever) I’d like it to provide more to the canopy and bring it out in a sweeping wide low canopy.

Definite thinning of the apical branches. no reductions in length of branches? Cos I guess if I want thinkening, should keep them untouched.

i was talking about the low ones that are highlighted by yellow lines in the virtual. shouldnt compromise the image too much if you decide to remove them either. depends on your taste really.

 

[ConorDash]

i was talking about the low ones that are highlighted by yellow lines in the virtual. shouldnt compromise the image too much if you decide to remove them either. depends on your taste really.

Ok cool thanks.
I think I need to decide a day and then just get in there and sort it out. I’m scared of cutting the wrong things and everything basically but I don’t think I’ll get over that fear unless I just do it and if I make mistakes, it happens.
I do not like the top of the trunk, the red line as you say. It’s a complete spiral which does not look good in my opinion. Also it’s very high for the future image I want to get, so I think I agree with you that it should be cut down lower then new leader wired for movement.

 

[BobbyLane]

tbf, follow the advice in this vid and you shouldnt go far wrong, helped me a lot before i grasped the hang of it

 

[StoneCloud]

I will do that you are right, I don’t see how it’d move or cause a problem now to remove that wire.
Have either of you any thoughts on progressing this tree, or it’s next steps?

Would you gentleman like to throw out an opinion? @MACH5 @M. Frary . If you don’t mind.
You’ve spoken to me about this before Mach and M. Frary, I just love your no bullshitting attitude to things. It does well at balancing out perspective, in my mind .

This image from @BobbyLane is where I would take it. I feel this direction works best with what the tree is offering and looks most natural. I also agree as you expressed the spiral does have to go. Some taper will be achieved this way too! After removing the spiral I think I would shorten it a decent amount also.

Ok cool thanks.
I’m scared of cutting the wrong things and everything basically but I don’t think I’ll get over that fear unless I just do it and if I make mistakes, it happens.

I know what you mean. I think I'll always have this problem!! lol I get the worst indecision in the moment, the fear of not going back, lol ! I get over it by walking away and contemplating another tree. Then going and researching similar images of trees with my tree right next to the computer screen. Sometimes it helps me see what I didn't before and sometimes it doesn't......

And when I get super frustrated well, I think of Adding to @sorce 's burn pile haha!!! Maybe add the "spiral" to the burn pile?

One thing though especially since you've got the tree in person and see it much better, just go with your gut. Do what feels most natural, even if the trade off is longer time in development or having to grow a new branch.

Going to be fun to see where you take it !!!

 

[BobbyLane]

This image from @BobbyLane is where I would take it. I feel this direction works best with what the tree is offering and looks most natural. I also agree as you expressed the spiral does have to go. Some taper will be achieved this way too! After removing the spiral I think I would shorten it a decent amount also.

View attachment 177502




I know what you mean. I think I'll always have this problem!! lol I get the worst indecision in the moment, the fear of not going back, lol ! I get over it by walking away and contemplating another tree. Then going and researching similar images of trees with my tree right next to the computer screen. Sometimes it helps me see what I didn't before and sometimes it doesn't......

And when I get super frustrated well, I think of Adding to @sorce 's burn pile haha!!! Maybe add the "spiral" to the burn pile?

One thing though especially since you've got the tree in person and see it much better, just go with your gut. Do what feels most natural, even if the trade off is longer time in development or having to grow a new branch.

Going to be fun to see where you take it !!!

This!
researching, similar and 'better' naturally styled trees and also real trees is whats helped me most in the hobby. studying what experts would do with similar material. i look at a lot of Walter palls trees. G potter..Will baddely etc cant emphasize enough.if you dont put in the research it will all seem daunting and if you dont take the hands on approach your trees will never progress.

 

[discusmike]

Is this a standard palmatum or cultivar?