A Career in Botany

[keyfen06]

I wasn't quite sure whether this would be suitable in this thread or The Tea House, but bonsai are plants and this is a general discussion so hopefully this was right!

I've had quite an interest in botany for somewhat over two years now. I got into bonsai a few months in when I started buying and taking care of plants like geraniums, fuchsias and such. Luckily my interest in this happened before I chose my A-Level subjects, meaning that I was able to tailor the subjects to something that would hopefully help me in a career further down the line. Now, my first year is done and I'm moving into my second year (time goes by too quick!) and next year I'll have to make my decision on what to do and apply - either university (my 1st choice), the Kew Diploma program, or a PGG and HBGTP traineeship. University is my first choice as there is one within an hours commute to me which my sibling has attended and it's rated quite well. Getting a degree may give me better options as well, and I enjoy school. I was thinking of studying Biology there, taking as many optional modules as possible that would help me out in the future. Unfortunately there's no dedicated botany program - only Cambridge University has that. After hearing about it today, I had a look at their page and it seems amazing, although it seems to require having taken Mathematics at A-Level which I did not do (Biology, Chemistry and IT were my pick). I will inquire tomorrow to see if they make any exceptions or if it's ironclad. It's also 2 and a half hours away, so the accommodation prices are quite scary to a Northerner!

What I'd love to hear is if any of the people on here possibly have any jobs related to/in botany or horticulture? How did you get there, what is your day-to-day like and is there anything you'd maybe do different? Any advice you could give me would be really appreciated too. I'm still quite unsure on what to do, but I would really like to specialise in studying the genetics of plants - breeding them is really interesting as well. I think I have @Glaucus to thank for that too. I understand that a good majority of the people on here are from America or other countries, so our pathways into a career might be a bit different, but I'd still love to hear other people's experiences.

Thanks.

 

[pandacular]

I don't have any advice on this matter, and I live on the opposite side of the ocean as you, but I wouldn't stress too hard about botany vs biology. I live near a large university with a great greenhouse. They hold open houses a few times a month where you can meet students, faculty, and their plants. While the greenhouse is part of the Department of Biology, I can assure you that those folks are botanists through and through.

I'm still quite unsure on what to do, but I would really like to specialise in studying the genetics of plants

two things about this statement jump out to me. the first part is the awareness that you don't really know what you want to do. that's good! embrace that. going to university is the first step in figuring that out, and the broader field of biology is great for that.

the other thing is that the study of plant genetics isn't really all that different than more generalized genetics. in fact, it's quite common to use plants for genetic research as you can get quite a fast generational turnaround with plants.

 

[Glaucus]

I don't work in botany or biology. I do have a biochemistry degree and worked in labs that did research on plants. I see you tagged me after we PMed a bit about plant genetics so I'll comment.

My guess would be that working in horticulture or being an academic in a biology lab are very different things. I get the impression that most people working in the horticulture are actually low wage workers from eastern Europe. Same will be true in agriculture.
And I think these horticulture companies are also somewhat shrinking in Europe. It seems that in the Netherlands, there are lot's of family businesses. Most quite innovative, so they definitely need some people with advanced degrees for sure. Also because of automation and because of logistics. But it is mostly about producing a quality product for consumers, cheaply. But I don't think a lot of research is happening specifically focused on the product. At least not with azaleas, at all. My impression from foodcrops is very different.

It would be a really big difference from being a geneticist. Most plant genetics would be about food crops, I feel. So let me comment a bit on a more academic career.
The main point I think I would make about an academic career is that it is mostly about fundamental understanding. I like bonsai. I like my azaleas. I see you like geraniums and fuchsias. But if you want to go into academia, you should be fascinated by the fundamental processes. It is the genetics you are interested in, by themselves, for their own sake. Be them genetics of cancer tumors, genetics of microbes, genetics of some obscure ocean creature like a ctenophora because it split off really early from all other animals, genetics of populations of bees. You may have started out interested in genetics because of say flowers. Or interested in the soil microbiome because of say bonsai. But eventually, it will bring you to a very specific subject that right now you won't even know about yet. And in an academic career, you often don't have control what exactly that subject is. You just have your science skillset, and you see what specific applications and problems you can work on. It might be plants, but it might not be. It might be genetics, but it might not be.

And then there are also many approached to genetics. For example, we need more bioinformaticians. That field grew really big really fast. And became relevant in all areas of the life sciences.
Many bioinformaticians tarted out with computer degrees, learning more about biology, as opposed to the other way around. But it also means that biologists are learning more math and computer programming.
There are many different backgrounds one can have to reach a job in the same lab. Pure plant science degrees (not a common thing, though), biology, chemistry, biochemistry, computer science, maths. Pure physics people would be rare, though. But they are not uncommon in biochemistry and cell biology.

Then, there's also field work, which I know very little about. But maybe you will do a genetics degree, but then end up rebuilding a coral reef or tropical rain forest for some NGO in Indonesia, with your hands in the dirt/seawater everyday, or something crazy like that.

That said, academia isn't for everyone. And it depends on the degree how well it translates to industry. Most people transition out of academia before becoming a professor themselves anyway. So that is also a logical path nowadays.
Doing a degree is just a few years. And often doing the degree is very different from doing the work that the degree leads to.
Besides that, not everyone has the right combination of talent, work ethic and discipline to do an advanced degree. You can also make more money, quicker, and with less effort in other fields.
Not entirely sure how the British education system works. But if you are young, there are always ways to end up with an advanced degree using an intermediate. I guess you are even younger than I thought. So to me, personally, the fact that you asked the questions you did and have the interest you do, that's really good. I did a lot of nerd talk info dumps on azaleas here, and you were one of the few people I got the impression was actually engaging fully with what I was saying. So that is probably a good sign. But I don't know your academic transcript. Horticulture trade school would be really different from getting a degree at a university, right?

What I would say about is that you need maths. I don't know how they allow you to pick subjects, but to me chemistry, IT, physics or biology don't make sense without math. If you take one of them, you kinda need maths along with it. Unless you know you won't go to university anyway and are just picking a science subject for fun. Maybe 20 years ago, you didn't need maths for biology. But today, you need more maths for biology than for chemistry. Of course, many don't like math. And many math teachers aren't so great, haha. So I get why teenagers like to throw it out.

Assuming a more academic path, I also wouldn't try to specialize too early. Your interests are probably going to change. Especially in academia, there are so many niche very specialized and specific things that right now you have no idea exist.
It is also good if your profession and your hobby don't overlap too much. That way, you can stay passionate about both.
Especially with artists and musicians, I always imagine that producing art or music that the market is asking, for but that is also not your thing, will drain you from doing the art and music that is 100% yours.


[edit]
Ah, I see this recommendation in the 'similar threads' about the 'Crime Pays But Botany Doesn't' youtube channel.
I think for a teenager interested in botany, watching that channel would be really fun.
I also remember seeing him doing a recommendation about what books to buy to learn more about botany. Just shows that you can learn all these basic things all by yourself, without even needing to go to university.
And if you really want to be a botany geek, you can just learn to ID as many plants as you can ever see. Not my thing.
Once you get to university, in the first year you will already see a clear difference about kids that are just really good at learning stuff, kids that are really passionate about the subject and already know a ton just by themselves, and those that have both.

Crime Pays But Botany Doesn't

This isn't bonsai related but I just wanted to share one of my favorite amateur botanists on youtube. He's foul mouthed, heavily tattooed with a thick Chicago accent traveling around identifying plants. I just like plants. Seeing plants I've never seen or even heard about before then going to...

www.bonsainut.com

You can just learn all that stuff all by yourself and do an accounting degree (no offense to accountants).

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I worked in plants labs too, which was fun. But it's not as the academic field where you get to experiment and explore a whole lot.
Most of what I did - media preparation, tissue culture - was also done by housewives with no degree. They called themselves housewives, so I have no trouble using that term. Maybe 5% of my week was more advanced stuff like checking for ploidy, ELISA assays and microscopy.

Last year I applied for a job doing plant field research and breeding. Seeing the setup and the breeding greenhouses was really cool. But.. The job required me to get up at 4 in the morning, required 8 hours of standing a day, and as Glaucus said; my direct colleagues would be unschooled Polish seasonal workers and apart from some more responsibilities for me, we would be doing the same job.
The academic field is saturated in the sense that there are too many biologists and botanists to easily get a job in academia. And I understand why; it's all the cool stuff, from inserting genes to doing trials with lights, soils, media, hormones and discoveries.

I highly recommend you to call a couple companies and ask if you can tag along for a couple days so you can see what you're signing up for. Biochemistry or life science will probably get you the same possibilities in the plant field, without preventing you to enter other fields. I ended up in developmental (human) biology where I'm also doing viral and microbial work, some protein stuff, tissue culture, some chemistry, and a whole bunch of genetics.
If you're good with IT, do check if bioinformatics would be your thing. Everybody seems to need more of those.
I still practice botany and plant science, but at home, as a hobby with a scientific basis. Which is a great way to spend my free time. It also doesn't ruin the vibe of plants for me.. When you spend your week transplanting 4000 seedlings and doing 20 hours of tissue culture, sometimes even salads lose their charm.

 

[leatherback]

I would say, go with your heart.

I have a degree in ecology (specialization on tropical savannas) and a doctorate in remote sensing / spatial science / ecology (understanding patterns in plant fysiology). For the doctorate I did more on plant biology than for my MSc. I went on to drought crop work, spent time understanding elephant movement and am now in an office coodinating the spatial sciences research programme for the university: In the end, life takes you onto unexpected roads an opportunities pop up for those with an open interest. Often the generic skills are what gets you into a position, and specifics are learnt on the job, except for the most highly specialized fields.

I am glad I did not specialize too much during my MSc, and left doors open. I "liked understanding nature" when I was choosing, and I took the most generic programme I could. As I learned more about biology, I realized there were routes that I had never thought about before. And in the end, being trained in systems thinking helps me now in understanding organizational structures and how to link people to resources more effectively.

Agreed that Math are important for advanced biology-like degrees.

 

[Crawforde]

My undergrad was general biology, minored in zoology.
Grad school was focused on wetland ecosystems, mainly looking at changes in animal populations as the systems were modified.
Then I worked for the USGS with my projects split between sturgeon spawning efforts and unionid mussels in the Great Lakes region.
Now I build wetlands for plant based nutrient uptake and water quality improvements while managing stormwater and agricultural runoff.
The point is, don’t specialize too early if you aren’t sure exactly where your heart is.
Follow your heart, follow the science and the jobs. Be flexible, work hard, and have fun and be ready to seize opportunity when it presents itself.

 

[Paradox]

I have a bachelor of science in marine science and a master of science in marine environmental science.
Marine science is a large and varied field

My undergraduate program was set up to give us a diverse background and covered basics in biology and ecology the first 2 years and later also covered, chemical and physical oceanography. Advanced biology courses allowed us to select fish, invertebrates, plankton and algal biology courses.

This gave us a basic background to go on to specialize at the graduate level in any of the disciplines (physical, chemical, biological - fish, invertebrates, algae, plankton) in marine science that we were interested in.

So my advice would be to definitely explore a diverse range of related things so you can decide what you're most interested in. Diversify yourself as much as you can. The more range of experience you can get will make you more marketable in the future.

 

[pandacular]

I am glad I did not specialize too much during my MSc, and left doors open.

This is one thing I've noticed. I used to help out in my universities engineering career services center. Our school had great programs in both aerospace engineering and mechanical engineering. Whenever the aerospace was on one of it's cyclical downswings (as it was when I was in university) the aerospace engineering students would get looked over for jobs by everyone. Meanwhile, the mechEs would be getting all sorts of jobs in whatever industry. The kicker? When aerospace was booming, they hired from mechanical engineering students just as much as from aerospace engineering!

 

[Cruiser]

State Timber Cruiser here. I measure and judge trees for a living.
The data and assessments are used quantify wood volume, quality, health, and value in forests.

A bulk of the profession is field work- hiking around the woods to count and grade trees at sample plots. Then crunching the numbers and writing reports about what was observed. It’s not just about the trees, we also discuss pathogens, minor plant species, topography, stand conditions, and other forestry related factors.

The position sometimes coordinates with other natural resource fields, like presales forestry, recreation, geology, silviculture, botany, engineering, biology, logging, fisheries, and even archeology.

To get here I earned a bachelors degree in forestry, volunteered, fought wildland fire, and worked various seasonal natural resource jobs. Most cruising positions require at least a 2 year degree or equivalent experience.

There isnt much I’d change. I won’t gush about it, but will say that Cruising and Forestry bring a lot joy to my life and mesh very well with bonsai.

If you like plants and working outside, my advice would be to turn your attention towards natural resource management. It is a broad field, there are likely to be branches of it that appeal to you and your goals.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Graduate Leadership Programme

Find out about our Graduate Leadership Programme and how you can play a part in the future of forestry.

www.forestryengland.uk

"Applications for 2024/25 will open in December 2023 or January 2024.

-

We're looking for people with the potential to become our future leaders and would like to hear from candidates with:

• a 2:1 degree (or international equivalent) or higher.
• degrees relating to the environment, sustainability, forestry and land management, or business are preferred.

However, we welcome applications from those with other degree subjects, providing you can demonstrate relevant interest or experience."

There are currently 50 forestry commission jobs advertised on the civil service website also, you can look how many do not require degrees, what degrees are required and compare salaries etc from there, but it won't let me link to the results from the search

 

[shohin_branches]

Bill valvanis has a degree in ornamental horticulture which is a little more specialized.

I went for an associate degree (tech school) in horticulture and then went back to school for computer science. I like being able to buy the trees and pay for conventions.

 

[R0b]

I have a degree in horticulture and close to 25 years experience in plant breeding. I make a comfortable living and work in a environment where most of my colleagues have advanced university degrees. Salaries can be really good and working hours not necessarily bad. I started in plant breeding where I moved from an assistant position (seed logistics, test and experiment evaluation) to plant breeder (breeding strategy, interaction with M&S, traveling, crossing programs, etc.), after I went into pre-breeding (genebank work, native trait discovery, technology development), and currently I have a role in managing breeding teams and strategy for the crops I work in.

I love all these jobs, I work in plantscience, the field changes so you will need to keep learning e.g. from RFLP makers to whole genomes to big data. You travel, you learn meet people from different cultures, and you contribute to feeding the world (beats banking or oil).

vegetable breeding is more interesting than row crops and flowers
data science is a hot topic (your IT pick)
Depending on specialisation you need to consider going for a PhD (what I should have done)

 

[shohin_branches]

@R0b That's what I really wanted to go into my freshman year of college but I didn't know anyone in a field like that. One of the many downsides of growing up working class and being pushed towards the trades when you want to be in science. I was first generation college and had no clue what I was doing. I do get to meet Will Radler in a couple weeks and see his rose garden.

 

[keyfen06]

Apologies for the late reply as I am on vacation at the moment. I can’t express how helpful all of these replies have been, and also what interesting and varied jobs you all have. I wish I could reply to them all! Thank you all for the advice, especially about not specialising too early. There’s still so much to learn for me not only in botany, but science overall and maybe I’ll even decide on another path later.

 

[R0b]

@R0b That's what I really wanted to go into my freshman year of college but I didn't know anyone in a field like that. One of the many downsides of growing up working class and being pushed towards the trades when you want to be in science. I was first generation college and had no clue what I was doing. I do get to meet Will Radler in a couple weeks and see his rose garden.

My parents were also both work class and didn’t encourage us much although they supported our decisions all the way. This did impact my choice to focus on horticulture instead of biology as I assumed people have to eat so probably easier to get a job. Which in the end didn’t matter that much as I still get to discuss the differences and similarities between breeding and evolution With colleagues. So depending on the jobs you take a lot is possible.