30 yo ground grown acer saccharum first cut

[Saddler]

So I have a dozen or so sugar maples that I can have, with a few years to remove them. Last summer the owners thought three of them got a disease and cut them back to stumps. They ended up not being diseased, just lacking light from the other maples. When I got there, I cleaned up the bark with a utility knife and smeared the top with Vaseline. Two survived.



The Nebari is about 20-24 inches where I have dug at it

How should I go about helping the cut to heal, do I notch it? Just let it grow for a couple years?

Any tips on removing this?

 

[Vin]

I'm not sure if Sugar Maple makes good bonsai or not @MACH5 . I wouldn't worry about that cut healing over. If they make good bonsai and you decide to dig it up it's going to require several more chops to get right.

 

[0soyoung]

Give it a couple of years or so. The phloem sap lines will become clear and the dead wood will dry making it easier to carve. If you do it while it is still in the ground carving could be done with a big hammer and chisel. If you are a chainsaw artist, maybe use it and leave the chisel stuff for the final details. Otherwise I think you will be using some kind of die grinder.

The big problem you have is roots - the 'feeders' likely 10 feet or so away from the trunk. I think you will need to dig down to them, cut a gap, and rebury them to develop feeders close enough to get it out of the ground. It may take a whole season or more to do this. And then you will likely have to sever a huge tap root to finally get it out of the ground. Big, big job.

Then, take a look at the length of those internodes! Egads. I'd say this might be good training for becoming a yamadori hunter, but it is not likely to be rewarding as a bonsai in the end. I'm excited for your trying anyway.

 

[GGB]

I think youre going to need to use a kidddie pool as a training pot. Been interested in this species but I haven't taken the plunge yet. Hope it comes along nicely for you

 

[Saddler]

My plan for the roots is to cut one third of them off very near the base each spring starting this year. Next year when I prune the roots, I am going to dig under it and prune the tap root. I have a much smaller one I am going to try digging up this spring, just to see what is going on. There is a hard clay base a couple feet down that might have stopped the tap root. I couldn't find a tap root under The one I dug a small hole under last year. But I wasn't as thorough as I would have liked to be. The trunk goes down about 18" so I expect this to be a monster. I am going to try every thing I can getting shorter internodes. I have seen leaves smaller then my hand on these trees so maybe I can reduce them a lot further. Or maybe not. These trees are coming out with or without me so I only have my time and gas money to lose.

 

[JudyB]

That is a lot of tree. I have to admit I don't see anything of interest in it other than it's big. Seems like quite a lot of trouble and sweat to take something that doesn't have anything much going for it. But I'll be watching to see what you do!

 

[Saddler]

@JudyB, I think once you see what's below the ground, you will see something of interest. It has some substantial flair with a large pancake nebari it seems. The fall colors it gets is reason enough to have it in my collection.

I don't mind putting the trouble and sweat into it, even if it is a dud. I'll learn something.

 

[JudyB]

Hopefully we all will, keep the updates coming! Good luck on the collection, you may want to look at some sort of machine to get it.

 

[Giga]

That is a lot of tree. I have to admit I don't see anything of interest in it other than it's big. Seems like quite a lot of trouble and sweat to take something that doesn't have anything much going for it. But I'll be watching to see what you do!

I'm just 2nd'ing Judy today

 

[MACH5]

It's tough to make good and believable bonsai out of these species due to their coarse growth and very large leaves. My own opinion is that this species looks best when large, old stumps are used. If this tree was mine, I would carve the trunk rather than trying to make it heal with more traditional methods. Trying to make a more "classic" bonsai out of them usually ends up being not as successful.

I also agree with Judy. It looks like too much trouble for a just a short piece of uninteresting stump. However, if it has an awesome and powerful nebari it might be worth the trouble?

 

[JudyB]

Hopefully we will all see this and be amazed with what you dig up.
I personally would pass, but that is after many of these sorts of digs turning out to be not great material in the end.

 

[Saddler]

Thanks for the tips @Osoyoung, I will use my trusty Husky chainsaw to notch it when I can see the lines. As to the internodes, I have seen them reduced to an inch or so on some of the trees that had branches trimmed back what I think was mid summer. I plan to do a lot of experimenting on the the dozen or so of these I have to play with.

@JudyB I accepted the fact that you could very well be right, long before I got permission to dig these monsters up. Fortunately I don't mind taking a chance and I feel I am prepared to let the project go if I stop seeing the potential in it. After I show more pics as I get further along and you still don't see what I see, I will likely heed your advice.

@MACH5 this tree I want a big ol broom, I have my vision for this particular stump. There are a couple larger trees that have not been cut down yet that I was thinking about possibly carving. On one of them I was thinking about drilling a few holes from the top of the cut at an angle and let the water naturally rot away the wood to start and go from there.

 

[Tentakelaertje]

Of you envision a broom for this one, you might want to let those new branches shoot for a couple of years until they have enough girth to be believable. And then chop and do it all over again.
I'm curious to see what this one looks like say 15 years down the road.

 

[Saddler]

@Tentakelaertje that is my plan. My research indicates that mature (25 year plus) sugar maples can fully recover in 3-5 years from a trunk chop. I am hoping I can cut it again in two more years if the proportions are correct.

@GGB you might have an excellent idea using a kiddie pool. I have seen small ones at Canadian Tire that might be the perfect size.

 

[GGB]

Thanks for the credit, I've seen others on this site do it actually. My entire collection could fit in a kiddie pool, so congrats you already have more cubic inches of trunk in that one tree than I do in my my yard

 

[Saddler]

lol, I am not sure that is a good thing. Unfortunately I am a sucker for a challenge and I have always wanted an acer saccharum bonsai. Many hurdles to clear to make this an actual bonsai. So many hurdles.

 

[sorce]

Challenge yourself to a race!

Grab an air layer off a good bend this year and see which makes a bonsai faster.

If they don't air layer.......

My money is still on the layer, giving you at least 5 years to figure it out!

Sorce

 

[Saddler]

Oh yea, they, air layer. I took one that has 6-7" diameter with an air layer for a friend. It seems, the bigger they are the better they air layer. The half dozen small ones 1-2" diameter branches were light on roots while these honking big guys were loaded all the way around. This four incher is about middle of the pack for root density. I might try ground layering a couple of the stumps if I can't dig them out.

 

[Waltron]

Here's one of mine, randomly chopped it in the woods at one point and forgot about it. Saw it one day and scooped it up and put it in garden bed back in Feb. got a few others I'm toying with. There is a silver maple I stop to appreciate often near my yard, basically a natural bonsai, every year, it has leaves that are about an inch. Deer and rabbit defoliated. Anyway, that's the reason I think sugar maples can be made into decent material. Good luck with yours.

 

[Saddler]

@Waltron good to hear. I can see that turning into a nice little tree. Please post more pics when it leafs out. I would love to see the leaves and petioles as the petiole length is my biggest concern. I am under the impression that petioles don't shorten, but I have been having trouble finding where I read it or any info on it actually. Can anyone tell me anything different?