11th floor JWPs

[petegreg]

Last year in november I purchased this JWP "Glauca" cultivar online. It was in good state, wired in the winter to open the foliage slightly and just few yellow needles were removed. I think it spent winter well. The tree is approximately 1,2 ft tall.
This picture was taken today, after repotting. The soil it came potted in looked good, but only till I checked it more carefully.
Taking it out of pot I found it was only top layer of pumice and some stones...below-potted in some mix of zeolite and peat moss 1:3.
Looking at roots I think this was potted last summer all fall. There were no new white feeder roots, the tree was put (literally) on bad soil. The weatherman forecast no night frosts for next 10 days, day tops are about 50s. So yesterday I did HBR repotting. Here is after picture:
...and here the picture how the buds looked like:
I hope it'll be OK. So I had to undergo HBR training for JBP repotting out of plan. Lesson learnt - check what you bought when delivered carefully...
Should I let the tree run free this season or candle pinching can be applied?

 

[Adair M]

You did the right thing with the HBR..

JWP grow really slowly. Yours is a little thin (bare of foliage) so I'm inclined to say to let it grow!

If you notice, your lower branches are stronger ( more foliage) than your upper branches. That's the way JWP are. Different from JBP. So, just make sure that those lower branches don't send out really long shoots. If you see a candle down low that much stronger than the others, break it off in half, but be sure to leave some needles on it.

When it gets to that stage, post a picture before you do anything, and I can give you my opinion. It's too late if you do it first!

 

[petegreg]

Thank you, sir. Will do. So they are not appically dominant?

BTW you people who check "likes received" notifications can see that I've been reading all japanese pines related stuff for a few days. Good threads, also differing approaches are found.

 

[Adair M]

A bit more on the differences between JWP and JBP:

If you look at mature specimens of both, you'll notice that JWP are styled with more rounded apexes, and JBP are more pointed. Neither should be very pointed, that's the sign of a young tree. Spruce are styled with pointed apexes.

Here is a picture of a very nice JWP grafted on JBP stock:



EXCEPT, it doesn't look like a JWP! It looks like a spruce!

It would look better (or at least, more like a JWP) if the top were chopped off at the level about 6 or 8 inches down from the top.

But, it is a beautiful tree like it is!

Notice how the lower branches are more dense than the upper ones.

Oh, another thing... JWP generally aren't styled with drooping branches. They're usually styled with horizontal, or nearly horizontal branches. They can be a little above or below horizontal, but not like they do with JRP and JBP. (At least on upright style trees. Cascades are different.)

 

[Adair M]

Thank you, sir. Will do. So they are not appically dominant?

BTW you people who check "likes received" notifications can see that I've been reading all japanese pines related stuff for a few days. Good threads, also differing approaches are found.

Exactly. JWP are not applically dominant. They're like azalea. In the wild, they're low growing, more like a pine bush.

 

[petegreg]

A bit more on the differences between JWP and JBP:

If you look at mature specimens of both, you'll notice that JWP are styled with more rounded apexes, and JBP are more pointed. Neither should be very pointed, that's the sign of a young tree. Spruce are styled with pointed apexes.

EXCEPT, it doesn't look like a JWP! It looks like a spruce!

It would look better (or at least, more like a JWP) if the top were chopped off at the level about 6 or 8 inches down from the top.

Notice how the lower branches are more dense than the upper ones.

Oh, another thing... JWP generally aren't styled with drooping branches. They're usually styled with horizontal, or nearly horizontal branches. They can be a little above or below horizontal, but not like they do with JRP and JBP. (At least on upright style trees. Cascades are different.)

Thank you, very nice example and explanations. I read you nice & clear.

 

[petegreg]

Well, I can delete the letter "s" that is after JWP in the name of this thread... this one didn't make it. Original soil + wrong winter care, repotting? I don't know what to blame.
Now I'll have to be happy with one little JWP bought 2 years ago from the different seller. This one was Japanese import, potted in some rock hard dark soil. I had no problem to repot it last year.

The tree was labeled Pinus pentaphylla. At the same time they offered 'kokonoe'
and 'zuisho' cultivars as well, but they were labeled... That's why I think mine is one of these dwarf cultivars. And plus it doesn't grow candles, just pushes individual bundles of needles.

People, you who meet JWPs every day, could you please ID this cultivar for me? I've contacted the seller, his response:"When you bought it two years ago, it can be 'zuisho'. Now we offer P. pentaphylla 'glauca' instead..."

 

[Cypress187]

You tie them all to the railing, and do you have tips for it? I have a simular situation and I need/want to secure them also.

 

[petegreg]

Yes, here is the detail picture. Just some hooks under the rails from the both sides + vinil rope over the pot.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Let it grow, let it grow!

 

[Adair M]

Maybe this will help:

Zuisho:



My "other" grafted JWP:



I'm sorry, I don't know the name of this cultivar, but it is the typical one they graft on. It looks a lot like yours.

I don't have Kokonoe. They're more like Zuisho.

 

[petegreg]

It looks a lot like yours.

Thank you. Yes, definitely. The 2nd picture really looks like the same cultivar. And it's very close to the trees shown in this article: http://www.bjorvalabonsaistudio.com/autumn-maintenance-of-japanese-white-pine/

edit: ...followed searching setsu-goyo and found shikoku variety.
https://crataegus.com/2011/12/08/old-white-pine-rewiring/

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Miyajima.

 

[petegreg]

Miyajima.

Thank you Brian, we're getting closer and closer.

 

[Adair M]

Miyajima.

Yep. I've heard it called that.

 

[petegreg]

Let it grow, let it grow!

Followed your advice, didn't touch it all the season and re-wired it "in copper" in the fall. And probably will leave it alone next season, maybe some pruning of upper parts, I'll see. @Adair M , this is an example of mat glazed pot I mentioned in
other thread, got it for some 8€. I've got some unglazed pots, but this can grow in actual pot next two years.

front


slightly rotated to the left


rear

 

[Anthony]

Peter what is the fertiliser ?
How is it working ?
Good Day
Anthony

 

[petegreg]

Peter what is the fertiliser ?
How is it working ?
Good Day
Anthony

Not so easy to answer, she was weak so was fertilized from spring to fall. I added some organic sheep pellets to the fert. baskets every 2-3 months, once or twice a month some chemical fertilizer (different products, you know what I had) and watered with water from the tank of fish when available. Also added sth similar to Ironite twice... I ceased fertilizing for few weeks in summer, but probably some organic were still there to supply some nutrients, but not fresh. The buds set for next spring finally look like buds.

Do you need No. n-p-k? I might find them somewhere...

Now I would need more foliage and some back buds on the lowest right branches, but right these are still weak, so I'm not comfortable with touching them next year.

 

[Anthony]

If you had a test one, I would have suggested lawn fertiliser at 1/3 strength into moist soil. [ next year late Spring ]
Perhaps also a simple porous earthenware clay pot [ make it look like a bonsai pot or a simple round ]
and if you didn't have it about 1/3 organic matter [ by volume ]
See if it improves the situation.

Health, it is what's on the table

Buone Natale.
Anthony

 

[petegreg]

If you had a test one, I would have suggested lawn fertiliser at 1/3 strength into moist soil. [ next year late Spring ]
Perhaps also a simple porous earthenware clay pot [ make it look like a bonsai pot or a simple round ]
and if you didn't have it about 1/3 organic matter [ by volume ]
See if it improves the situation.

Health, it is what's on the table

Buone Natale.
Anthony

Thanks Anthony, do you think it has health issue? I think it's much better than last season when I had to remove many branches. And it's already dormant. No organic soil, please.

Well, I can slippot in spring, have these Yixing pots available, but I'd prefer not to disturb the roots next years.