Species Study - Taxodium distichum

rockm · Jun 12, 2025

BillsBayou said:
Here's some garden nursery trees that will NEVER be good bonsai. The last one is the rare nursery tree that has a chance at becoming good bonsai.

View attachment 602191

Just all kinds of no. The fat bastard on the right is the sort of thing you want to avoid.

View attachment 602192

This is some serious H.P. Lovecraft horror. If you stare at it too long, it will enter your dreams and kill you. You don't want your bonsai to kill you. Do you?

View attachment 602193

The nursery grower must have looked at this and said "Wow! Won't have to use any bamboo to hold this one up!" If you show me this as your bonsai, I might whip you with those bamboo.

View attachment 602194

When we say that a bonsai has a masculine form, we don't mean it has big hairy testicles. If the first thing you have to do with your bald cypress is treat it for testicular cancer, maybe you should pick a different tree.

View attachment 602195

THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT TO FIND AT A GARDEN NURSERY. It's not the greatest bald cypress for bonsai, but it's a fantastic start. Sadly, you're going to be hard pressed to find a tree like this at a garden nursery.

About 90 percent of the BC I’ve seen at big box stores and most nurseries are like the trees in your post. If that’s where you’re getting one look at the rootbase carefully. Neagari is not a great look for crummy material. It is the windswept style of BC. When all else fails -“it’s a wind swept

Joe Dupre' · Jun 12, 2025

BillsBayou said:
Here's some garden nursery trees that will NEVER be good bonsai. The last one is the rare nursery tree that has a chance at becoming good bonsai.

View attachment 602191

Just all kinds of no. The fat bastard on the right is the sort of thing you want to avoid.

View attachment 602192

This is some serious H.P. Lovecraft horror. If you stare at it too long, it will enter your dreams and kill you. You don't want your bonsai to kill you. Do you?

View attachment 602193

The nursery grower must have looked at this and said "Wow! Won't have to use any bamboo to hold this one up!" If you show me this as your bonsai, I might whip you with those bamboo.

View attachment 602194

When we say that a bonsai has a masculine form, we don't mean it has big hairy testicles. If the first thing you have to do with your bald cypress is treat it for testicular cancer, maybe you should pick a different tree.

View attachment 602195

THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT TO FIND AT A GARDEN NURSERY. It's not the greatest bald cypress for bonsai, but it's a fantastic start. Sadly, you're going to be hard pressed to find a tree like this at a garden nursery.

I'll admit, some of those examples are very weird. BUT, and it's a big BUT, art is in the eye of the beholder ........ or artist. I would never say that kind of nebari is bad. It's maybe not my taste or the traditional style of nebari. It really depends on what you want out of the hobby of bonsai............true art or art commensurate with Japanese bonsai traditions. My style is heavily on what I think is pleasing and much less on what some Japanese tradition is.

doc spring _work · Jun 12, 2025

Picked up a BC (peve minaret BC) from my nursery, was on the prowl for gamble oak (clonal mountainous shrub) but they sold out, was strolling and I saw this fella, the small needles really called out to me and the small nebari pad that appears to be at the base appeal to me, although I think I'll be using this tree as a mother plant collecting some air layers over time and reducing to encourage back budding on the graft and get more regular BC features.

Anyone play with this cultivar?
(brief research shows its semi-dwarf, compact and pyramidal in it's growth with strong apical dominance) I expect it to be a bit of a challenge compared to the standard BC but I think it should be fun to work on. Advice of design welcome, cutting down to a nub doesn't seem like a massive plan

There are two long bc shoots coming of the base, a small raise island of roots that'll get some TLC next year, and three possible leaders, the current tall leader, a nub next to it or the small branch I'm holding out

rockm · Jun 12, 2025

doc spring _work said:
Picked up a BC (peve minaret BC) from my nursery, was on the prowl for gamble oak (clonal mountainous shrub) but they sold out, was strolling and I saw this fella, the small needles really called out to me and the small nebari pad that appears to be at the base appeal to me, although I think I'll be using this tree as a mother plant collecting some air layers over time and reducing to encourage back budding on the graft and get more regular BC features.

Anyone play with this cultivar?
(brief research shows its semi-dwarf, compact and pyramidal in it's growth with strong apical dominance) I expect it to be a bit of a challenge compared to the standard BC but I think it should be fun to work on. Advice of design welcome, cutting down to a nub doesn't seem like a massive plan

There are two long bc shoots coming of the base, a small raise island of roots that'll get some TLC next year, and three possible leaders, the current tall leader, a nub next to it or the small branch I'm holding out

This peve minaret? Dwarf cultivars generally aren’t worth the time as they’re slow growing and not as responsive as the main species. There are exceptions like Kingsville boxwood, but they come with substantial trade offs.

I’ve seen this variety at nurseries here. Generally pricey, small and no nebari since they’re cutting and container grown Haven’t worked with it though.

Let us know how it goes

BillsBayou · Jun 13, 2025

rockm said:
About 90 percent of the BC I’ve seen at big box stores and most nurseries are like the trees in your post. If that’s where you’re getting one look at the rootbase carefully. Neagari is not a great look for crummy material. It is the windswept style of BC. When all else fails -“it’s a wind swept

90%?! Wow! I'm thinking more like 95-98% is crap.

"When all else fails - 'it's a windswept'" That's only when using the lower case "all". I would write it differently "When ALL else fails - 'it's a literati'"

Joe Dupre' said:
I'll admit, some of those examples are very weird. BUT, and it's a big BUT, art is in the eye of the beholder ........ or artist. I would never say that kind of nebari is bad. It's maybe not my taste or the traditional style of nebari. It really depends on what you want out of the hobby of bonsai............true art or art commensurate with Japanese bonsai traditions. My style is heavily on what I think is pleasing and much less on what some Japanese tradition is.

Know what else has a big BUT? Those fat-bottom trees. Big ugly butts.

Art may be in the eye of the beholder, but so is garbage. A friend told me a story about the time she met John Naka at a bonsai workshop in New Orleans. He picked up her shohin black pine and asked "Do you want to make good bonsai?" she replied "Yes." John said "This will never be good bonsai" and threw the tree in the trash. I'm no where near John Naka and I'll never throw someone's tree in the trash, but I will let them know the tree garbage. Maybe I'll say "The last time I saw something like this in a ceramic pot was this morning. Then I flushed."

Not really, but I will let them know that they will be the only one who appreciates the tree. If someone is going to spend years, and maybe decades working on a tree, it is unkind to tell them otherwise. When they tell me I'm wrong (as they do) I tell them to prove it. They've never proven it.

Side note: Because I work for a university and my daughter was an art major, I did get into an argument with an artist about the merits of his work. "Art should be evocative," I said "It should stir something in the viewer. The only thing I get from your work is a reminder to put the trash out." Later, I put in a call to Facilities Management to have them come remove the pile of trash he was calling "art". They threw it in the dumpster. And yes, there is a LOT more to that story.

BillsBayou · Jun 13, 2025

doc spring _work said:
Picked up a BC (peve minaret BC) from my nursery, was on the prowl for gamble oak (clonal mountainous shrub) but they sold out, was strolling and I saw this fella, the small needles really called out to me and the small nebari pad that appears to be at the base appeal to me, although I think I'll be using this tree as a mother plant collecting some air layers over time and reducing to encourage back budding on the graft and get more regular BC features.

Anyone play with this cultivar?
(brief research shows its semi-dwarf, compact and pyramidal in it's growth with strong apical dominance) I expect it to be a bit of a challenge compared to the standard BC but I think it should be fun to work on. Advice of design welcome, cutting down to a nub doesn't seem like a massive plan

There are two long bc shoots coming of the base, a small raise island of roots that'll get some TLC next year, and three possible leaders, the current tall leader, a nub next to it or the small branch I'm holding out

That's a graft. The root stock is likely a standard bald cypress. The shoots coming out of the base will not be peve minaret. I recommend removing them. The root stock of many trees are often much stronger than the grafts.

Bonsai with grafted bases rarely make good bonsai. These trees suffer from distracting aesthetics such as: Root stock having a different color than the graft; root stock being much wider than the graft; Bark mismatch between graft and base; Visible graft line; Graft lines too far up the trunk; Diagonal graft lines. That's for trunk-grafts. If a bonsai has branches grafted onto the trunk, the grafts are often overlooked as "collars" and don't become an issue.

The problem with your tree is how different the root stock looks from the graft. It's like the graft is growing from a pedestal. I see this all the time with Japanese maple varieties.

My recommendation is to bury the root stock. Pot the tree deeper so that the soil line is just above the graft line. An interesting quality of bald cypress is their ability to grow roots higher up on their trunks if they are buried or inundated. It might be possible to chase the roots up higher on the root stock. Ideally, the peve minaret could grow roots of its own. However, peve minaret is a "sport" mutation. Sports may lack certain abilities, such as making their own roots, their own flowers, their own fruits/cones, and seeds. Sports that do produce seeds will often result in un-modified trees. Sports are often different because of non-genetic mutations.

That said, I have also seen sports that root better than the parent plants. Guy Guidry has a privet variety with super-tiny leaves and it roots like crazy.

What I would like to see is roots coming out of the base of the peve minaret, just above the graft line. If it were my tree, I'd pot the tree with the graft at least an inch into potting soil. I would make several small nicks just above the graft line at uneven intervals. Then dust the nicks with rooting hormone and bury that an inch deep. Don't connect the nicks to each other or you will girdle the tree and kill it. Pick an odd number so you avoid symmetry.

Another option would be to keep the tree growing as a mother tree and make new trees out of cuttings and air-layers. But if the peve minaret does not produce roots in either attempt, you're stuck.

This might be a dead-end for all the work you put into it. However, I've done the same. If I had the chance to buy a peve minaret, I would jump at it and do all the things I just wrote.

Whichever the case, please make notes of what you do and let us know what happens. Even if it's all bad news. Failures are only failures if we don't learn from them.

doc spring _work · Jun 13, 2025

BillsBayou said:
That's a graft. The root stock is likely a standard bald cypress. The shoots coming out of the base will not be peve minaret. I recommend removing them. The root stock of many trees are often much stronger than the grafts.

Bonsai with grafted bases rarely make good bonsai. These trees suffer from distracting aesthetics such as: Root stock having a different color than the graft; root stock being much wider than the graft; Bark mismatch between graft and base; Visible graft line; Graft lines too far up the trunk; Diagonal graft lines. That's for trunk-grafts. If a bonsai has branches grafted onto the trunk, the grafts are often overlooked as "collars" and don't become an issue.

The problem with your tree is how different the root stock looks from the graft. It's like the graft is growing from a pedestal. I see this all the time with Japanese maple varieties.

My recommendation is to bury the root stock. Pot the tree deeper so that the soil line is just above the graft line. An interesting quality of bald cypress is their ability to grow roots higher up on their trunks if they are buried or inundated. It might be possible to chase the roots up higher on the root stock. Ideally, the peve minaret could grow roots of its own. However, peve minaret is a "sport" mutation. Sports may lack certain abilities, such as making their own roots, their own flowers, their own fruits/cones, and seeds. Sports that do produce seeds will often result in un-modified trees. Sports are often different because of non-genetic mutations.

That said, I have also seen sports that root better than the parent plants. Guy Guidry has a privet variety with super-tiny leaves and it roots like crazy.

What I would like to see is roots coming out of the base of the peve minaret, just above the graft line. If it were my tree, I'd pot the tree with the graft at least an inch into potting soil. I would make several small nicks just above the graft line at uneven intervals. Then dust the nicks with rooting hormone and bury that an inch deep. Don't connect the nicks to each other or you will girdle the tree and kill it. Pick an odd number so you avoid symmetry.

Another option would be to keep the tree growing as a mother tree and make new trees out of cuttings and air-layers. But if the peve minaret does not produce roots in either attempt, you're stuck.

This might be a dead-end for all the work you put into it. However, I've done the same. If I had the chance to buy a peve minaret, I would jump at it and do all the things I just wrote.

Whichever the case, please make notes of what you do and let us know what happens. Even if it's all bad news. Failures are only failures if we don't learn from them.

My plan was to slowly air layer off different branches... Both root stock and PM but the ground layering doesn't seem like a bad idea, if I want to make the root stock it's own plant could I grow out the two root stock branches before ground layering then in a season or two reduce the PM and take it with the fresh roots on pot it up? Probably a fall project that...

But thoughts? The bc at the nursery aside from this where all subpar, and everything I can get out here is grafted so I should get use to ground/ air layering to separate materials.

Admitted I should make a trip to Louisiana some time in the fall and get a little muddy

I just really love this species... And the arbor day foundation sent me a ton of dead seedlings so I'm making due.

Notes will follow on this variety I found another post with it and I'll simply have to hope the user has some notes on his PM-BC

Cajunrider · Jun 13, 2025

doc spring _work said:
My plan was to slowly air layer off different branches... Both root stock and PM but the ground layering doesn't seem like a bad idea, if I want to make the root stock it's own plant could I grow out the two root stock branches before ground layering then in a season or two reduce the PM and take it with the fresh roots on pot it up? Probably a fall project that...

But thoughts? The bc at the nursery aside from this where all subpar, and everything I can get out here is grafted so I should get use to ground/ air layering to separate materials.

Admitted I should make a trip to Louisiana some time in the fall and get a little muddy I just really love this species... And the arbor day foundation sent me a ton of dead seedlings so I'm making due.

Notes will follow on this variety I found another post with it and I'll simply have to hope the user has some notes on his PM-BC

The reasons why nursery BCs are subpar:
1. Young BC are stabilized and groomed to grow very fast vertically hence there is no taper.
2. The narrow nursery containers plus heavy doses of fertilizer result in circling of roots. Growers don’t have time to repot. Most of the time they simply up-pot and the circling roots continue with the pattern.

Beside buying collected trees or going down to the south to get them yourself, there is an alternative.

Buy the smallest BCs sold at the big box stores. They usually are around $20. Take them home and sort out the roots then put them in a shallow grow box. Feed them hard and dunk them when they are healthy. In 4-5 years you will get a tree worth turning into bonsai. Of course you can spend $200 or $300 and shorten the 4 years to 2 weeks

doc spring _work · Jun 13, 2025

Cajunrider said:
The reasons why nursery BCs are subpar:
1. Young BC are stabilized and groomed to grow very fast vertically hence there is no taper.
2. The narrow nursery containers plus heavy doses of fertilizer result in circling of roots. Growers don’t have time to repot. Most of the time they simply up-pot and the circling roots continue with the pattern.

Beside buying collected trees or going down to the south to get them yourself, there is an alternative.

Buy the smallest BCs sold at the big box stores. They usually are around $20. Take them home and sort out the roots then put them in a shallow grow box. Feed them hard and dunk them when they are healthy. In 4-5 years you will get a tree worth turning into bonsai. Of course you can spend $200 or $300 and shorten the 4 years to 2 weeks

Yes. Yes.. and yes

unfortunately I big box stores don't sell the bc out here although it grows wonderfully. So if I want a good bc I have a few opinions... Lots... And lots of propagation... Purchasing bulk seedlings (if that happens again I'll be buying from the johnsteen company not arbor-day again) I can take a trip down south and dawn some wet boots and prepare for an inch of clay off my feet, or I break bank paying a collector for material... Essentially I'm f...luffed... I should just go about collecting up here and being satisfied with what I can get .. but as my injury flairs up I can barely walk most days... I can barely imagine doing the 20 mi hikes I use to enjoy.. or even climbing up the mountain to grab a tree on a whim

but I love this art so I'll simply suffer.. hopefully here soon I'll switch over to days and be able to attend my local club (they meet on Wednesdays at like 5 while I'm working

)

Cajunrider · Jun 14, 2025

doc spring _work said:
Yes. Yes.. and yes unfortunately I big box stores don't sell the bc out here although it grows wonderfully. So if I want a good bc I have a few opinions... Lots... And lots of propagation... Purchasing bulk seedlings (if that happens again I'll be buying from the johnsteen company not arbor-day again) I can take a trip down south and dawn some wet boots and prepare for an inch of clay off my feet, or I break bank paying a collector for material... Essentially I'm f...luffed... I should just go about collecting up here and being satisfied with what I can get .. but as my injury flairs up I can barely walk most days... I can barely imagine doing the 20 mi hikes I use to enjoy.. or even climbing up the mountain to grab a tree on a whim but I love this art so I'll simply suffer.. hopefully here soon I'll switch over to days and be able to attend my local club (they meet on Wednesdays at like 5 while I'm working )

Have you thought of growing BC from seeds. It is easy. I’ve done thousands.

doc spring _work · Jun 14, 2025

Cajunrider said:
Have you thought of growing BC from seeds. It is easy. I’ve done thousands.

Honestly I haven't... And that's a personal flaw, I know I'm impatient, but that is possibly the best option at least then if they lack character it's my fault

Joe Dupre' · Jun 14, 2025

I read a very profound statement years back......"The next five years will pass whether you do something or you don't." Or something to that effect. If you've been into bonsai 5 years or longer, a seed planted then could be a very formidable bonsai by now. Plant seeds, make cuttings or collect a pinky-sized seedling from the woods The next 5 years will pass.

Cajunrider · Jun 14, 2025

Joe Dupre' said:
I read a very profound statement years back......"The next five years will pass whether you do something or you don't." Or something to that effect. If you've been into bonsai 5 years or longer, a seed planted then could be a very formidable bonsai by now. Plant seeds, make cuttings or collect a pinky-sized seedling from the woods The next 5 years will pass.

About 5 years ago I planted dozens of BCs grown from seeds along my driveway. After 2 major hurricanes, I only have a dozen left, this one is 12 ft tall with a sizeable trunk.

Cajunrider · Jun 16, 2025

Cajunrider said:
The base now looks fantastic. It will look even better once I put it in a bonsai pot and reveal the roots.
Wiring from last winter is removed today. Lots of young shoots at the wrong places were also removed.
View attachment 597974
View attachment 597975
View attachment 597976 View attachment 597977
View attachment 597978 View attachment 597979

A couple deep slits were cut to reduce the bulge at the split. More of that will be done in the future.
View attachment 597980

Now look May 2025
View attachment 597981

Hard prune today

Wulfskaar · Jun 16, 2025

Joe Dupre' said:
I read a very profound statement years back......"The next five years will pass whether you do something or you don't." Or something to that effect. If you've been into bonsai 5 years or longer, a seed planted then could be a very formidable bonsai by now. Plant seeds, make cuttings or collect a pinky-sized seedling from the woods The next 5 years will pass.

I've got 5 year old seedlings now, and I'm glad I have them!

Cajunrider · Jun 17, 2025

Hard lesson learned. I delayed my pruning about a month and the top growth got out of control. I pruned about 10 BCs so far. In some trees new shoots emerged and tried to overtake the apex. The top growth crowded out the low growth. Massive amount of foliage has to be taken off.

Cajunrider · Jun 19, 2025

Fantastic post.

Thread 'Bald Cypress Flat-Top Styling Advice'

Jun 11, 2025

Problem: Unnatural symmetry in bald cypress flat-top bonsai.

Cause: Creating a new apex along with new branches at the chop.

Solution: Understanding how symmetry is introduced into your design and avoiding it by doing one thing at a time; New apex or new branch.

Building a flat-top bald cypress can begin with collecting an existing tree from the swamp (numadori). This often begins with a “trunk chop” to establish a starting point. Branches will form near the chop point. The artist might choose one of these new branches to be the apex of the flat-top design. This point of commencement...

doc spring _work · Tuesday at 2:29 PM

12 days later, this is the most growth I've seen from any tree I've had, I need to get the stuff together because I'm definitely doing some air layers this weekend.

I think on the main stock im going to let it develop a cascade branch as the weight of the new foliage has taken a side branch and tipped it downwards, in the future I may prune to encourage this to become the leader, (I know cascades aren't a natural habit for these...)

Alternatively there is a good branch from the former leader that could take over.

This fall I intend to move the tree into a wide (mostly) shallow pot probably about~ 3 Inches tall to burry the graft line and allow it to overcome the graft rootstock.. is this too much for this plant this year? Removing about a third of the woody tissue (not overall biomass, it's getting quite happy lower) then a repot?

Species Study - Taxodium distichum

Spuds Moyogi

Omono

Shohin

Attachments

Spuds Moyogi

Chumono

Chumono

Shohin

Imperial Masterpiece

Shohin

Imperial Masterpiece

Shohin

Omono

Imperial Masterpiece

Imperial Masterpiece

Omono

Imperial Masterpiece

Imperial Masterpiece

Shohin

Attachments

Similar threads