Very sick Pine

[HannaLawless]

I’m sad to be posting this. Two years ago we purchased a home with an old outdoor bonsai pine tree, reported to be over 100 years old.

About a month ago, I noticed some of the needles turning brown/brittle. This problem does not seem to be going away although I have increased the watering. We have been having hotter than usual summers in the PNW (Tacoma, Wa).

However I just don’t know if the problem is so simple. This is also a photo of the trunk which is powdery white in spots and the exterior bark is just so brittle and easy to remove by hand.

Can anyone offer any words of wisdom or treatment plan to someone who knows next to nothing about bonsai... I really just don’t want this tree to die. I’m having a hard time sorting through information and figuring out what is really going on and what i can do.

Thanks

 

[0soyoung]

The whitish-grey stuff looks to me to be lichen - harmless to the tree (I think it attractive).
The tree has new growth (the lighter green stuff on the ends of branches/twigs).
This is the time of year that many conifers drop old leaves/needles - I think it is normal leaf drop and not a worry.

Lastly, it is not a pine. I'm guessing a fir. There is an old mnemonic
Pines needles are pointy (and have a sheath around the base of needle groups)
Spruce needles are square (cross-section)
Fir needles are flat (and tend to come off the stem on a plane)

Hemlock (which I cannot rule out, because I struggle with dendrology) has single needles all around the stem that aren't flat

All in all, I think it is okay. Be careful with the water. Roots must get air (oxygen specifically) to do what they do - they can be drowned.

 

[Lazylightningny]

The whitish-grey stuff looks to me to be lichen - harmless to the tree (I think it attractive).
The tree has new growth (the lighter green stuff on the ends of branches/twigs).
This is the time of year that many conifers drop old leaves/needles - I think it is normal leaf drop and not a worry.

Lastly, it is not a pine. I'm guessing a fir. There is an old mnemonic
Pines needles are pointy (and have a sheath around the base of needle groups)
Spruce needles are square (cross-section)
Fir needles are flat (and tend to come off the stem on a plane)

Hemlock (which I cannot rule out, because I struggle with dendrology) has single needles all around the stem that aren't flat

All in all, I think it is okay. Be careful with the water. Roots must get air (oxygen specifically) to do what they do - they can be drowned.

Oso, I responded to a second thread that the op posted on the same tree. I thought it might be fungal. Looks like a lot of dead foliage. What's your opinion?

 

[River's Edge]

I’m sad to be posting this. Two years ago we purchased a home with an old outdoor bonsai pine tree, reported to be over 100 years old.

About a month ago, I noticed some of the needles turning brown/brittle. This problem does not seem to be going away although I have increased the watering. We have been having hotter than usual summers in the PNW (Tacoma, Wa).

However I just don’t know if the problem is so simple. This is also a photo of the trunk which is powdery white in spots and the exterior bark is just so brittle and easy to remove by hand.

Can anyone offer any words of wisdom or treatment plan to someone who knows next to nothing about bonsai... I really just don’t want this tree to die. I’m having a hard time sorting through information and figuring out what is really going on and what i can do.

Thanks

The tree is a fir as indicated. There is some new growth but also clear indications of dead terminal buds and dead newer terminal needles. Likely fungal in nature. I would reccomend cutting off the dead portions to clean up the tree. Watch for recurring fungal infection during winter and wetter times of the year. Use a fungicide if it reoccurs. Firs can harbour some difficult fungal infections and a systemic if available in your area would likely give the best result. Osoyoung would be more aware of what is available in your area.
It is possible that the tree did not receive enough water during a hot spell as it appears to be in the ground and rain in the PNW has been in short supply this summer.

 

[HannaLawless]

thank you. i was thinking that i should wait til dormant season to prune... overthinking maybe. i will go ahead and do that tomorrow. there will be a lot of loss... what do you think about the white portion on the trunk? peel away or leave alone? i will look into fungicide too. what do you mean by “a systemic?”

 

[Potawatomi13]

Systemic is applied to soil and taken in by roots as opposed to foliar application. Lichen no worry. Picking off will likely damage old bark. Agree with above that is Fir (Abies) tree. Please add location to profile for best help. Looking at ground under bush looks like not watered enough.

 

[clem]

When a disease appears (or seem to appear) on a tree, with a lot of burned foliage, the first thing i worry about is a disease of the roots (roots rot). Often Good roots means good health.
So if i were you, i would dig around a part of the rootball to look at the roots : the roots should be alive, the extremity of the roots should be white. If you don't see any white roots, it maybe a roots rot and the only solution is to transplant the tree and cut all the dead roots. If the roots are OK the problem is somewhere else (for example fungal issue, insects attack, dryness of soil etc)

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Could be the tree was planted there 2 years ago and was Never going to make it.
"100 years old" didn't have to be there.
Sounds BS anyway....sales.

Where were the first brown needles?

It is possible this started as old needle browning... And turned into overwatering problem.

Looks like the heat/water may have spurred that new growth?

More investigation.

No diggy.

S

 

[Clicio]

It is possible this started as old needle browning... And turned into overwatering problem

I agree, it's always a possibility.

 

[clem]

It is possible this started as old needle browning... And turned into overwatering problem.


More investigation.

No diggy.

S

hello, don't you think that overwatering can result in root damage ?
checking the roots wouln't affect the tree, IMO

The tree maybe has no disease, but it seems very weak

 

[Lazylightningny]

thank you. i was thinking that i should wait til dormant season to prune...

You're not pruning live foliage. Cut that stuff off now and get rid of it!

 

[sorce]

hello, don't you think that overwatering can result in root damage ?

Quite honestly....

It seems possible in this instance which would be the stupidest thing I ever seen....

Which is why I think there is more "shadiness" coupled with the scenario in some shape or form...

But..

I think digging to the find the roots would come a close second to the stupidest thing I ever seen! Lol!

The only thing that would be worth any effort on my part now....
If it were me...

Finding the JagDuster that told me some BS about a hundred year old blah blah blah...

Which is a Topiary with some lichen....
Which anyone from the PNW knows dont mean THAT old...

So I pose the question.....

Was the real estate agent even fron there?

Shady as Fuck!

Hey maybe thats the solution too! Shade!

Furrrrrrrnt!

Way to much energy towards .......

Furrnt!

S

 

[clem]

Quite honestly....

It seems possible in this instance which would be the stupidest thing I ever seen....

Which is why I think there is more "shadiness" coupled with the scenario in some shape or form...

But..

I think digging to the find the roots would come a close second to the stupidest thing I ever seen! Lol!

The only thing that would be worth any effort on my part now....
If it were me...

Finding the JagDuster that told me some BS about a hundred year old blah blah blah...

Which is a Topiary with some lichen....
Which anyone from the PNW knows dont mean THAT old...

So I pose the question.....

Was the real estate agent even fron there?

Shady as Fuck!

Hey maybe thats the solution too! Shade!

Furrrrrrrnt!

Way to much energy towards .......

Furrnt!

S

your answer represents exactly what i dislike in this forum : dry and contemptuous answers.
so i Don't agree with you : digging doesn't mean cutting all the roots, but just checking roots in a small area. This way you can go further in the diagnostic of the problem

 

[M. Frary]

your answer represents exactly what i dislike in this forum : dry and contemptuous answers.

You might want to put me on ignore right now.

In what small area is he supposed to check the roots.
The top?
The sides?
The bottom?
He wont find them around the surface.
So that means digging.
A lot. Unless of course you know exactly where the root tips are then you can direct him to the precise spot.

 

[sorce]

dry and contemptuous answers

I do not dislike you or the OP.

I hate that Douche ass real estate agent,
Is that why "Contemptuous"?

Anyway...

Of course Overwatering can cause root damage...hence...

overwatering problem

So the best course of ACTION....
INACTION.

THOUGHT.

We know (not as well as the OP) that there was a change at the roots caused by hot weather and different watering.

Just Change it back!

As far as digging the tree....

Please Explain what to do when you dig and find some healthy roots.

How about when you dig and find unhealthy roots?

Point is...it won't help anything to see only some.

Its like going to the doctor to see if you have measles and only showing them the bottom of your big toe.

I dont know what "dry" means in your context....
But sounds the opposite of my colorful language.

So...

Because this is so difficult a mystery....

Because a tree...established in the ground in the PNW....is not going to just up and die.

Which is why I firmly believe the tree been dying since they redid the landscaping before the house sale.

You see....the problem Hannah had...is "100 year old Bonsai Pine dying".

Maybe when it becomes just another piece if shit topiary that can be had for free off the right Craigslist or Offerup ad.....
Miss Hannah can get back to More important things.

And realize she never really had reason to worry!

Perception is everything. Obviously! Lol!

Second thought....

Dig it!

S

 

[M. Frary]

Dig it!

Right up and out of its soil. It's only been there 100 years. It will be fine.
Just dont disturb the fine roots it depends on.

 

[clem]

@sorce i don't dislike you either, i don't even know you, but i'd never say that what you advise is stupid, maybe a difference beetween our cultures / education i guess.....
@M. Frary i don't understand where is the problem seriously... did you ever collect a fir, picea or other big conifer from the ground ? you find superficial roots when you digg normally.. and if you cut some of them, the tree won't die..

Please Explain what to do when you dig and find some healthy roots.

How about when you dig and find unhealthy roots?

S

digging will make it possible to go further in the investigation of the tree problem : i really don't understand you when you say : "investigate more" and say "don't dig !" don't get the logical process...

so you dig and you'll find roots.
-> no dead root : fine, the problem is elsewhere..
-> dead roots, rotten roots ... you have found the problem : so it has been usefull to digg...
and what to do if the tree has a serious pb of the roots ? you let the tree die ?

 

[sorce]

I didn't call the advise stupid...
But the actual action would be.....to me.

Roots.
You must dig up the entire rootball to know what the real entire situation is.

Investigate with thought.

S

 

[M. Frary]

@M. Frary i don't understand where is the problem seriously... did you ever collect a fir, picea or other big conifer from the ground ? you find superficial roots when you digg normally.. and if you cut some of them, the tree won't die..

I have dug up lots of large conifers. With shovel and hydraulic spade.
The trees I dig or dig are or were done at the correct time for such a procedure.
Also they were healthy.
The tree posted isnt.

 

[Nicholas Box]

Remove the dead things with scissors. Water the appropriate amount and don't overdo it.

Wait.

I think it suffered a little, but will recover. I don't see fungal imo.

Another option would be to have a local nursery person who knows conifers and your area to check it out. Not sure what they can do to help at this point, but could be they provide more information. Good luck