Which Bald cypress (Taxodium distichium) would you choose and why?

[Yamamomiji]

Dear forum,

I've been looking a longer time now for a bald cypress as I like their appearance and habit.
Certainly they are not native to Central Europe but moreover, unluckily, also not that widely popular.

As my local nurseries seldomly sell them I've been looking around online and found some candidates.
Now, as I am not that experienced in this species for now, general Bonsai knowledge certainly present, I might ask if you have any particular hints, which of these would be ideal to develop for the next 5 - 10 years?
I prefer a formal upright or otherwise slanting or informal upright would be fine too I guess.









My thoughts:

1. good size and trunk, promising nebari. Leader aims for flat top style, possible inverse taper on current chop may lead to another (slanted chop).
2. way bigger on trunk size (nearly twice), no real details due to foliage recognisable, nebari unknown.
3. finished appearance, but quite thin trunk (4 cm), muddled nebari, nervous last 1/3 of the apex with multiple bends. Lowest branch could be used as a sacrifical, apex chopped to continue formal upright line.
4. roughest look but possible best raw material to further develop. Good basal flare, good size and proportions. Informal upright design could be continued with one leader already in place to build apex.

Dawn redwoods would be my other choice due to similar appearance but I still like the bald cypress' foliage and habitus more (nearly impossible to overwater, knees, etc.).

Greatly appreciate your feedback!

 

[Michael P]

Your analysis of what is good and bad for each tree is correct. #2 makes me think the seller is concealing something. Suggestion: find some photos of bald cypress that you really like, then buy the tree that most closely resembles them.

 

[doc spring _work]

Analysis seems good.

I like #1, if you follow @Cajunrider 's Thread 'Species Study - Taxodium distichum' https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/species-study-taxodium-distichum.54918/

He demonstrates some fantastic techniques.

For me #1 has the start of fluting that I most enjoy from the species, a bit of carving on the top should solve the inverse taper and trunk splitting at the base to widen would work fantastic.

But I do think Micheal is right, take some time to study some mature photos to determine what it is you appreciate the most about the species then seek out a tree with those features.

 

[Yamamomiji]

Many thanks for your replies.
I will dive into the recommended thread and explore some more wisdom.

Upon decision, I will gladly report and hope for the start of something exciting!

 

[coachspinks]

I agree that you should look at pictures of bald cypress bonsai and pick the one that has the best path to looking similar to that tree. 1 has potential but it will need to develop fluting. That is helped by putting the pots in water during the growing season. However, there is no taper in #1 or #2 and that is a problem for me. I think some carving and new leader may help #1. My personal favorite is #4. I like the movement and taper. I think there is a nice flat top BC waiting to be developed.

 

[HENDO]

#4 for sure - best nebari and movement. Chop it ~2/3 up and you'll have a strong start

 

[rockm]

One and four. The other two are mostly junk. Ones too thin the other is a telephone pole. A lot of work for both to get anywhere and what comes out the other end won’t match the potential of the other two

The other two have some character, base and a bit of movement. Forget about existing branching on any of these. It’s easily replaced for better judge trunks not branching

 

[Cmd5235]

4. Movement on the trunk is solid but graceful. If I had to pick one, no doubt there. If you don’t go with that one, send me the link and I’ll buy it.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

One and four. The other two are mostly junk. Ones too thin the other is a telephone pole. A lot of work for both to get anywhere and what comes out the other end won’t match the potential of the other two

The other two have some character, base and a bit of movement. Forget about existing branching on any of these. It’s easily replaced for better judge trunks not branching

This is the correct answer. @Yamamomiji The branches on these trees won't be the branches you have in five years. They grow really fast & you'll develop ones to fit your design. I like #4 with the trunk movement, but they all look decent. If they're as rare you say, buy as many as you can. That's what I did.

 

[Cajunrider]

4 is the best for me. The others require more work and time.

 

[Yamamomiji]

4 is the best for me. The others require more work and time.

Thank you for your comment.
I hoped you would tune in.
So my instinct was about right to decide.
Meanwhile another slightly smaller twin of #4 appeared:



So I guess I would aim for a flat top with #4 (got some good ideas from pictures) and wait to find another one as a formal upright at a later point.
Thank you so much for all contributions.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Number four has best beginning for basal taper that is one of two most desirable Bald Cypress characters. The other is knees.

 

[Yamamomiji]

To give you an update: I got an irresistible offer for a Dawn Redwood and could not resist.
Photos to come when weather is not that miserable anymore.

Thank you for all your inputs!

 

[newtown_arboretum]

I'd recommend digging your own baldcypress since I'm aware of very few active, ethical BC "yamadori" collectors/vendors today. I get it. Bonsai is slow, and the uncertainty outweights its meager rewards early on. But the process early on is so important for your growth as an artist, so be cautious towards seductive "pre-bonsai" shills. Pictured are my first-year Taxoidium, which I rescued from a lawnmower in Central Park this past June. They are developing in nice proportion to their ceramic vessels. Photo #1 features from left: two T. distichum, baldcypress, and a small Metasequoia in the Japanese ceramic on the right.

Technical note: A central tenent or feature of trees under bonsai is the relationship between trunk and branch diameter. When a tree loses its crown, the branches are thicker and lower proportionally than the shape of the trunk suggests. And-- more often than not-- where vendors chop crowns, branches eventually demand trimming back for aethetic or health reasons at which point the individual branches look short for their girth, and with absent tapers at branch-end where they miss that last, forking leaf cap. Crown gone and terminal leaves docked, the tree suffers damage to its vasculature. Gravity overwhelms the transpiration of water from soil to sky (at least partially). Stress causes unpredictable back-budding, diminishing whatever sense of proportionality a tree gains with branches shortened respective its trunk.

All this is to say that a living tree demonstrates a perfect evolution any human intervention best serves simply to discover in ourselves intuition for the natural world by growing an unnatural tree in a pot thus avoiding the pitfalls, backsliding, discomfort, and failure inherent to the misguided bonsai artist who derives satisfaction manipulation, control, possession without humility of the timeless and invaluable (not to say this is you!).

Apologies if I sound moralizing or indignant, I don't feel like rewriting, and everyone should have a bonsai manifesto HA. Anyways, thanks for considering this viewpoint and I would be happy to discuss. I expect my position will change as I learn!

 

[Treelord]

I'd recommend digging your own baldcypress since I'm aware of very few active, ethical BC "yamadori" collectors/vendors today. I get it. Bonsai is slow, and the uncertainty outweights its meager rewards early on. But the process early on is so important for your growth as an artist, so be cautious towards seductive "pre-bonsai" shills. Pictured are my first-year Taxoidium, which I rescued from a lawnmower in Central Park this past June. They are developing in nice proportion to their ceramic vessels. Photo #1 features from left: two T. distichum, baldcypress, and a small Metasequoia in the Japanese ceramic on the right.

Technical note: A central tenent or feature of trees under bonsai is the relationship between trunk and branch diameter. When a tree loses its crown, the branches are thicker and lower proportionally than the shape of the trunk suggests. And-- more often than not-- where vendors chop crowns, branches eventually demand trimming back for aethetic or health reasons at which point the individual branches look short for their girth, and with absent tapers at branch-end where they miss that last, forking leaf cap. Crown gone and terminal leaves docked, the tree suffers damage to its vasculature. Gravity overwhelms the transpiration of water from soil to sky (at least partially). Stress causes unpredictable back-budding, diminishing whatever sense of proportionality a tree gains with branches shortened respective its trunk.

All this is to say that a living tree demonstrates a perfect evolution any human intervention best serves simply to discover in ourselves intuition for the natural world by growing an unnatural tree in a pot thus avoiding the pitfalls, backsliding, discomfort, and failure inherent to the misguided bonsai artist who derives satisfaction manipulation, control, possession without humility of the timeless and invaluable (not to say this is you!).

Apologies if I sound moralizing or indignant, I don't feel like rewriting, and everyone should have a bonsai manifesto HA. Anyways, thanks for considering this viewpoint and I would be happy to discuss. I expect my position will change as I learn!

The act of digging your own Taxodium distichum is not merely ethical. It is a participation in the tree’s ontological unfolding. A nursery-raised “pre-bonsai” carries the dislocation of imposed temporality. It is severed from the swamp-memories encoded in its xylem. A self-collected seedling retains the latent histories of lenticels, emergent roots, and imagined buttresses.
When one removes the crown, the trunk asserts ambitions disproportionate to its hydraulic reality. Branches thicken in quiet rebellion. Transpiration becomes a negotiation between gravity and phantom canopy. This produces anarchic back-budding and the collapse of apparent proportionality into a paradox of taper and form.
To observe such a tree is to witness a dialogue between species, pot, and caretaker. Every wired bend and clipped apex is less manipulation than humble participation in a photosynthetic symposium. Terminal leaves, crown dynamics, and the ethics of intervention converse silently. It is precisely within the recognition of this dynamic—seeing the lawnmower, the ceramic vessel, and the diminutive Metasequoia beside the Taxodiums as co-participants in arboreal fate—that the artist cultivates intuition. One discerns the rhythms of vascular, gravitational, and ontogenetic forces. One apprehends the subtle, inexhaustible reward of life negotiated in clay. Here, art, biology, and patience merge in a suspended, quiet eternity.

Sorry if i come off a bit ignorant

 

[rockm]

I'd recommend digging your own baldcypress since I'm aware of very few active, ethical BC "yamadori" collectors/vendors today. I get it. Bonsai is slow, and the uncertainty outweights its meager rewards early on. But the process early on is so important for your growth as an artist, so be cautious towards seductive "pre-bonsai" shills. Pictured are my first-year Taxoidium, which I rescued from a lawnmower in Central Park this past June. They are developing in nice proportion to their ceramic vessels. Photo #1 features from left: two T. distichum, baldcypress, and a small Metasequoia in the Japanese ceramic on the right.

Technical note: A central tenent or feature of trees under bonsai is the relationship between trunk and branch diameter. When a tree loses its crown, the branches are thicker and lower proportionally than the shape of the trunk suggests. And-- more often than not-- where vendors chop crowns, branches eventually demand trimming back for aethetic or health reasons at which point the individual branches look short for their girth, and with absent tapers at branch-end where they miss that last, forking leaf cap. Crown gone and terminal leaves docked, the tree suffers damage to its vasculature. Gravity overwhelms the transpiration of water from soil to sky (at least partially). Stress causes unpredictable back-budding, diminishing whatever sense of proportionality a tree gains with branches shortened respective its trunk.

All this is to say that a living tree demonstrates a perfect evolution any human intervention best serves simply to discover in ourselves intuition for the natural world by growing an unnatural tree in a pot thus avoiding the pitfalls, backsliding, discomfort, and failure inherent to the misguided bonsai artist who derives satisfaction manipulation, control, possession without humility of the timeless and invaluable (not to say this is you!).

Apologies if I sound moralizing or indignant, I don't feel like rewriting, and everyone should have a bonsai manifesto HA. Anyways, thanks for considering this viewpoint and I would be happy to discuss. I expect my position will change as I learn!

How many BC collectors do you know? A blanket statement like this indicates you know several personally.

You also don’t provide a location. What “Central Park” are you talking about? NYC?

Seems to that Recommending people “dig their own” can lead to the very unethical activity you mention.

Also you don’t really seem to have a grasp of how BC bonsai are developed. Existing branching is not really used in final designs. Pics of trunk chopped BC bonsai are below. Some were chopped as long as 40 years ago. They are vigorous healthy trees and have bee for quite a while.

Do you have any mature established BC bonsai?

This information would go a long way towards validating what you’ve observed

FWIW I know several BC collectors. Some for decades. They are ethical and take their collection activities very seriously. Some have been collecting and selling for 40 years.

 

[rockm]

Fwiw all of the trees in the first two photos were collected in SE Virginia by friends of mine three years ago using landowner permission and technical know how. They own a bonsai nursery and have many BC bonsai they’ve work on for years.

 

[Mike Westervelt]

I'd recommend digging your own baldcypress

Uh.... the OP lives in Austria, like north central Europe, so probably not a lot of bald cypress collecting opportunities.

 

[rockm]

The act of digging your own Taxodium distichum is not merely ethical. It is a participation in the tree’s ontological unfolding. A nursery-raised “pre-bonsai” carries the dislocation of imposed temporality. It is severed from the swamp-memories encoded in its xylem. A self-collected seedling retains the latent histories of lenticels, emergent roots, and imagined buttresses.
When one removes the crown, the trunk asserts ambitions disproportionate to its hydraulic reality. Branches thicken in quiet rebellion. Transpiration becomes a negotiation between gravity and phantom canopy. This produces anarchic back-budding and the collapse of apparent proportionality into a paradox of taper and form.
To observe such a tree is to witness a dialogue between species, pot, and caretaker. Every wired bend and clipped apex is less manipulation than humble participation in a photosynthetic symposium. Terminal leaves, crown dynamics, and the ethics of intervention converse silently. It is precisely within the recognition of this dynamic—seeing the lawnmower, the ceramic vessel, and the diminutive Metasequoia beside the Taxodiums as co-participants in arboreal fate—that the artist cultivates intuition. One discerns the rhythms of vascular, gravitational, and ontogenetic forces. One apprehends the subtle, inexhaustible reward of life negotiated in clay. Here, art, biology, and patience merge in a suspended, quiet eternity.

Sorry if i come off a bit ignorant

My eyes glazed over at “apparent disproportionality…”

 

[Michael P]

For some reason this interesting and reasonable discussion has suddenly generated a lot of word salad.