Pine/Fir Bark Sourcing

[elijah_moncrieff]

So, I know this has been talked about on older threads but looking for updated info or opinions of people who have tried these ideas and their thoughts. I am in search of Fir bark (preferably) or Pine bark in large quantities. Ideally in graded sizes that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I know I can go to HD or Lowes and buy large bark nuggets and try to jerry rig some contraption to make them smaller but have not found a great option to reduce the size of pieces without having to spend hours of crushing, chopping, grinding etc. and then additional time sifting through all of the fines. Alternatively, for those of us that do use organics/bark in our soil, these are the options I have come up with, all prices include shipping unless available in person from the local store:
- Repti bark (still a bit on the bigger size in terms of particles, I have found this to average 1/4-1/2") from Petco/PetSmart at $25 for 24 dry quarts
- Orchiata precision grade fine orchid bark (this would be amazing if I could get it delivered for less than $85 for a 35L bag) but again I'm looking for bulk and at an affordable price.
- The Bonsai Supply 1/4" pine bark, high quality, but still only getting 20 quarts for $53 shipped
- Waldor.com sells fine grade fir bark 2 cu ft bag for $86 shipped
- EB Stone fine orchid mix 3 cu ft for $86, never seen this product in person, but thinking this might be the best option I have found for the quantity, even though it's still a bit pricey.
I know this is already turning into a long winded post, but I have also looked into the option of using a manual meat grinder as someone demonstrated on YT with a #12 grinding plate and looks to give pretty good particle size. But, I wonder the amount of time and energy it would take to produce 2+ cubic feet of usable material. Other options I have thought about are using a wood chipper and buying the larger bark nuggets from a big box store and chipping them smaller but I'm not sure how small that will get them and I'd rather not have to buy a wood chipper as 'm sure they aren't cheap. If anyone has tried any of these options or has suggestions or ideas that could help me to save some money I would greatly appreciate them!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Over here you can rent woodchippers for about 50 euros a day.
Maybe placing an ad in the local papers can lead to someone lending you one, so you can try it out.

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

Over here you can rent woodchippers for about 50 euros a day.
Maybe placing an ad in the local papers can lead to someone lending you one, so you can try it out.

Have you used one before? If so what was your experience like? I considered exploring this option but wasn't sure how small the chipper would make then as I would like the particles to be around 1/4" or smaller. I've used a wood chipper at a friends house (granted we were using it to chip tree branches) but the pieces came out 1-2" in size so didn't know if bark fed through a chipper would make something small enough for bonsai.

 

[rockm]

You don’t have your location in your avatar. Location is half or three quarters of the battle in finding what you’re looking for

I used composted pine bark made up and bagged as “soil conditioners” or “clay buster” for clay soils in landscaping. Worked very well. Could be bought at Lowe’s or Home Depot and worked very well.

Orchid bark is fir bark. You can find that at specialty orchid b growers online the smallest grade possible- any or seedling grade. It also works very well

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I've used standard ones for branches and the like. And the actual diesel powered chipper. The latter pushed out 3-5mm chips quite reliably.
The electric branch chopper however had a moveable rotator to chop to certain sizes, but reducing the size of the output also reduced the size of the opening for the input.

Would it work for bark flakes? I don't know honestly. That's why borrowing one might be a good call before you rent one. The rentable models are usually a bit higher in quality, so they might have adjustables whereas a similar consumer model wouldn't.

Pet store bark is something I can't recommend. It's sometimes treated in such a way that it retains very little of normal bark's natural properties; no fungi and bacteria, no resin, it doesn't break down very well either. I mean it doesn't break down like regular bark does, but instead turns to rock and then to powder without a highly biologically active soft and mushy phase in between.

Orchid stores like @rockm said are also a good source.

 

[rockm]

I've used standard ones for branches and the like. And the actual diesel powered chipper. The latter pushed out 3-5mm chips quite reliably.
The electric branch chopper however had a moveable rotator to chop to certain sizes, but reducing the size of the output also reduced the size of the opening for the input.

Would it work for bark flakes? I don't know honestly. That's why borrowing one might be a good call before you rent one. The rentable models are usually a bit higher in quality, so they might have adjustables whereas a similar consumer model wouldn't.

Pet store bark is something I can't recommend. It's sometimes treated in such a way that it retains very little of normal bark's natural properties; no fungi and bacteria, no resin, it doesn't break down very well either. I mean it doesn't break down like regular bark does, but instead turns to rock and then to powder without a highly biologically active soft and mushy phase in between.

Orchid stores like @rockm said are also a good source.

Some issues with using straight chips from the wood chipper. Disease and decomposition inthe soil that can steal nitrogen

Per store bark tends to be too chunky

Composted pine bark doesn’t have either of those issues.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

I use a very fine pine bark chip size - 2-8mm - https://www.boomschors.nl/Franse-Bo...__0R6EujcElzgfSWsNj0KNY2k8xWe0qxoCc1cQAvD_BwE

I'm only showing the ad to indicate what you CAN find if your search long enough.

Try also orchid suppliers - they use a fine grade too.

 

[penumbra]

I get mine, both pine and fir, from Bonsai Jack. Very high quality, screened and clean, delivered fast and free. Don't remember the cost but its reasonable. Since it only makes up about 10% of a mix, I don't need large quantities for my bonsai. If using it in a growers mix, I just buy fine pine bark mulch at Walmart or wherever else I find it. It varies in quality and size, but for a growers mix it is fine. I have been using it as the primary component in growers mixes for about 50 years now.

 

[Srt8madness]

You don’t have your location in your avatar. Location is half or three quarters of the battle in finding what you’re looking for

I used composted pine bark made up and bagged as “soil conditioners” or “clay buster” for clay soils in landscaping. Worked very well. Could be bought at Lowe’s or Home Depot and worked very well.

Orchid bark is fir bark. You can find that at specialty orchid b growers online the smallest grade possible- any or seedling grade. It also works very well

They don't have those conditioners/soil busters at the big boxes here. Can't even get it shipped.

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

You don’t have your location in your avatar. Location is half or three quarters of the battle in finding what you’re looking for

I used composted pine bark made up and bagged as “soil conditioners” or “clay buster” for clay soils in landscaping. Worked very well. Could be bought at Lowe’s or Home Depot and worked very well.

Orchid bark is fir bark. You can find that at specialty orchid b growers online the smallest grade possible- any or seedling grade. It also works very well

I am located in northern AZ so bonsai isn’t even a thing here. I’m one of two people in the area (that I’m aware of) that grow and collect them. I am planning to borrow an electric wood chipper and since we live in a ponderosa pine forest I will collect bark and attempt to chop it in the chipper.

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

Some issues with using straight chips from the wood chipper. Disease and decomposition inthe soil that can steal nitrogen

Per store bark tends to be too chunky

Composted pine bark doesn’t have either of those issues.

I hear the word “composted” often in relation to using pine bark but have heard mixed opinions about its necessity. Some say composted is better because it won’t rob nitrogen, others say not composted because we are already supplementing with N and the bark will last longer in a pot before breaking down. I’m wondering if a better word to use is “aged” because it implies that it’s not from a tree that was recently cut down and therefore doesn’t have large amounts of live sap etc. and has dried. Also, when I bought pine bark from bonsai jack it looks exactly like crumbled bark from dead pine trees. Which would be dried naturally and “aged” but not technically composted. What are your thoughts?

 

[rockm]

Fwiw. I used bagged composted pine bark ”clay soil conditioner “ for a decade for my home made mix. Had no issues with it worked very well. Cost $2 for 30 lb bag. I mixed it 20 percent with crushed poultry granite grit and crushed quartz swimming pool filter sand.

I hear the word “composted” often in relation to using pine bark but have heard mixed opinions about its necessity. Some say composted is better because it won’t rob nitrogen, others say not composted because we are already supplementing with N and the bark will last longer in a pot before breaking down. I’m wondering if a better word to use is “aged” because it implies that it’s not from a tree that was recently cut down and therefore doesn’t have large amounts of live sap etc. and has dried. Also, when I bought pine bark from bonsai jack it looks exactly like crumbled bark from dead pine trees. Which would be dried naturally and “aged” but not technically composted. What are your though

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

Fwiw. I used bagged composted pine bark ”clay soil conditioner “ for a decade for my home made mix. Had no issues with it worked very well. Cost $2 for 30 lb bag. I mixed it 20 percent with crushed poultry granite grit and crushed quartz swimming pool filter sand.

I considered this also. My biggest concern is that my bonsai are not big so particle size would likely still be an issue. I’m planning to use a wood chipper and make them smaller though so I think I’ve come to a resolution, finally!

 

[Wulfskaar]

If you don't need a ton or if you're in a pinch, Reptibark can work too. I got a couple bags from Petsmart. Reptibark is fir bark chips, maybe 1/4-1/2" in size (?).

 

[rockm]

The particles is composted soil conditioner pine bark are very small. It can be too fine if not sieved gently

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

The particles is composted soil conditioner pine bark are very small. It can be too fine if not sieved gently

I’ll have to check this out too

 

[penumbra]

I am planning to borrow an electric wood chipper and since we live in a ponderosa pine forest I will collect bark and attempt to chop it in the chipper.

I bought an electric chipper and it chips too fine for my use. My larger gas chipper grinds too coarse. Still I could probably use the end product, but the stuff from Bonsai Jack is perfect out of the bag. I value my time enough that i only makes sense to buy my pine and fir already processed.

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

I bought an electric chipper and it chips too fine for my use. My larger gas chipper grinds too coarse. Still I could probably use the end product, but the stuff from Bonsai Jack is perfect out of the bag. I value my time enough that i only makes sense to buy my pine and fir already processed.

I have used bonsai Jack before also, but their prices have gone way too high and for someone like myself with over 100 trees I cannot justify spending that much money on only one soil ingredient. I’m glad it works for you though!

 

[rockm]

They don't have those conditioners/soil busters at the big boxes here. Can't even get it shipped.

One of the reasons I don’t mix soil anymore. The clay buster stuff turns up occasional now. It used ti be common. Suppliers come and go (for most any ingredient you’re using). I saw the Landscapers Pride Composted bark lat fall. Hadn’t seen it for years before that.

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

One of the reasons I don’t mix soil anymore. The clay buster stuff turns up occasional now. It used ti be common. Suppliers come and go (for most any ingredient you’re using). I saw the Landscapers Pride Composted bark lat fall. Hadn’t seen it for years before that.

When you say you don’t mix soil anymore, what do you mean by that? You buy pre mixed bonsai soil for all your trees?